1 00:00:47,672 --> 00:00:51,343 - Okay. You ready for this? - How can you be? 2 00:00:55,180 --> 00:00:57,140 You can do it. 3 00:01:19,037 --> 00:01:21,164 Hello, darling. 4 00:01:24,626 --> 00:01:28,463 -Hi, how are ya? -Hi. I'm great. How are you? 5 00:01:28,546 --> 00:01:30,215 - Hello, gorgeous. - Hi, Grandpa. 6 00:01:30,256 --> 00:01:31,716 - Come on in. - How are you doing? 7 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,511 Good to see you, baby. 8 00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:38,348 I'm glad you came! 9 00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:41,976 -Well, I-- -You look great, woman. 10 00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:46,481 -Eh, thanks. -You do. You look wonderful. 11 00:01:46,523 --> 00:01:48,233 -I'm good. -Mm. 12 00:01:48,316 --> 00:01:50,276 It's good. 13 00:01:53,613 --> 00:01:57,033 -Lulu, this is my daughter, Debi. -Hi. 14 00:01:57,075 --> 00:01:59,244 This is my granddaughter, Amanda. 15 00:01:59,285 --> 00:02:01,371 -Nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you. 16 00:02:01,413 --> 00:02:02,747 Hi, Doris. 17 00:02:02,997 --> 00:02:04,582 He's a wonderful person. 18 00:02:04,624 --> 00:02:06,501 - Good to hear. - Yes, he is. 19 00:02:06,584 --> 00:02:09,754 Aw, you're sweet, Doris, you're too nice. 20 00:02:09,838 --> 00:02:11,006 Hi, Ruby! 21 00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:12,298 He's a lovely man. 22 00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:15,343 - Is he? - He is. Really nice. 23 00:02:15,427 --> 00:02:17,053 - What? - I said, I saw all 24 00:02:17,095 --> 00:02:20,098 -these gorgeous young ladies coming in here... -Yes, his family. 25 00:02:20,181 --> 00:02:23,059 ...and I walked by, and there you are. 26 00:02:23,101 --> 00:02:26,354 I hope you are being... a good boy. 27 00:02:26,438 --> 00:02:28,940 It's awful hard, but I try. 28 00:02:28,982 --> 00:02:31,109 I-I agree, I agree. 29 00:02:31,192 --> 00:02:33,319 I know you do. 30 00:02:33,403 --> 00:02:36,990 - Have a good one. - Okay, Lorraine, take care. 31 00:02:37,073 --> 00:02:40,160 That one has a mouth, and she's-- 32 00:02:40,243 --> 00:02:42,370 Takes all kinds when you're livin' in a community, 33 00:02:42,454 --> 00:02:44,789 -ya know? -She's so nasty to her husband. 34 00:02:54,466 --> 00:02:55,800 Of course, honey, of course. 35 00:02:55,842 --> 00:02:58,928 - Don't you hesitate for anything. - Okay. 36 00:02:58,970 --> 00:03:00,472 I'm at your total disposal. 37 00:03:00,513 --> 00:03:02,474 We're just love to have you, girl. 38 00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:05,018 It's an honor and a privilege. 39 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,529 Now, as far as the issue that you were accused of, 40 00:03:16,613 --> 00:03:20,909 and I just wanted to ask if you did identify 41 00:03:20,992 --> 00:03:23,244 as having those struggles 42 00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:25,914 and, and how you felt about that. 43 00:03:29,292 --> 00:03:31,086 - Did I have a battle with that? - Mm-hmm. 44 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:33,672 You better believe I did. 45 00:03:33,755 --> 00:03:34,547 I don't know, 46 00:03:34,631 --> 00:03:37,092 but I sure did. Absolutely. 47 00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:38,385 And I used to fight with myself. 48 00:03:38,468 --> 00:03:42,222 I said, "Why do you do this? This is not right." 49 00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,850 I didn't want to do things that were bad or wrong, 50 00:03:45,934 --> 00:03:50,271 but it, it, it just-- and it just seemed like what was so strange-- 51 00:03:50,355 --> 00:03:52,232 I couldn't-- I still haven't figured that one out, 52 00:03:52,315 --> 00:03:55,652 but it seems so strange because there were times 53 00:03:55,694 --> 00:03:58,029 that-- and I don't know the answer to it, 54 00:03:58,113 --> 00:03:59,739 but it seemed like 55 00:03:59,823 --> 00:04:01,658 that some of these little girls, for example, 56 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,035 would almost throw themselves at me. 57 00:04:04,077 --> 00:04:06,329 Now, that might sound a little stupid, 58 00:04:06,413 --> 00:04:09,290 but they wanted to learn things, and they were experimental. 59 00:04:09,374 --> 00:04:11,334 They want-- Ya know? 60 00:04:11,376 --> 00:04:15,672 And it-- to me, it was too much of an open temptation. 61 00:04:17,048 --> 00:04:19,634 And I fell into it. 62 00:04:22,554 --> 00:04:23,972 Yeah, there was things that happened. 63 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:25,682 - Oh, absolutely. - Mm-hmm. 64 00:04:25,724 --> 00:04:29,394 We had quite an engagement, so to speak, 65 00:04:29,477 --> 00:04:32,647 and, uh, we were very close, sexually. 66 00:04:32,731 --> 00:04:36,651 Even though she was little... and she loved it. 67 00:04:36,735 --> 00:04:38,695 Can I ask how old she was? 68 00:04:38,737 --> 00:04:42,907 Well, she started-- I think she started around the age of 9 through 11. 69 00:05:15,023 --> 00:05:17,525 Uh, how 'bout the, uh, the, the boy? 70 00:05:17,609 --> 00:05:20,570 Can he come to another elephant? 71 00:06:00,819 --> 00:06:03,071 Hey, Amanda, it's Mom. 72 00:06:03,655 --> 00:06:06,783 If you could give me a call back as soon as possible. 73 00:06:06,825 --> 00:06:09,077 Grandma is not doing well at all. 74 00:06:11,746 --> 00:06:14,082 Um, not sure what to expect. 75 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:19,379 Alright, I love you. I'll talk to you later. Bye. 76 00:06:25,969 --> 00:06:28,930 Well, what do ya think about that, huh? 77 00:06:30,306 --> 00:06:33,435 There we get to see that dolly. 78 00:06:43,987 --> 00:06:45,947 Is the pain a little better? 79 00:06:46,031 --> 00:06:50,827 Okay, good. You were really hurtin' earlier. 80 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:56,166 My mom's life was like one of those crystals 81 00:06:56,207 --> 00:06:57,709 that you can hang in the sun, 82 00:06:57,751 --> 00:07:00,211 and you see different facets. 83 00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:03,715 A lot of it is a mystery. 84 00:07:03,757 --> 00:07:05,884 In the few times that I did ask her 85 00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,678 to tell me the truth about things, 86 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,557 like my past, or my dad, or whatever, 87 00:07:12,599 --> 00:07:15,560 she just got angry with me, 88 00:07:15,643 --> 00:07:18,563 and she would just say there is no use in bringing up the past 89 00:07:18,605 --> 00:07:21,649 because it's not gonna change what happened. 90 00:07:24,235 --> 00:07:27,072 She knew so much more than what she ever expressed 91 00:07:27,155 --> 00:07:30,116 because she wasn't allowed to express it. 92 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,962 My dad stole my mom's entire life. 93 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:50,261 She left with all of her secrets. 94 00:07:50,345 --> 00:07:51,596 She knew so much 95 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,724 and she defended him until the day she died. 96 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:58,436 And I feel like she had a million and one regrets 97 00:07:58,478 --> 00:08:01,773 because she never lived her life for herself. 98 00:08:06,611 --> 00:08:10,115 The impact that my dad has had on our family, 99 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:11,783 I think, is devastating, 100 00:08:11,866 --> 00:08:14,953 but we've never talked about it. 101 00:08:15,245 --> 00:08:17,664 So we don't know the truth. 102 00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:22,085 How do you change that? 103 00:08:39,686 --> 00:08:42,647 It's funny when you think about, you know, 104 00:08:42,731 --> 00:08:44,983 how Grandpa liked the burnt cookies. 105 00:08:45,025 --> 00:08:46,860 Like, why was he strange like that? 106 00:08:46,943 --> 00:08:48,653 Everybody else liked the normal ones, 107 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:50,613 but why did he like, ya know-- 108 00:08:51,072 --> 00:08:56,327 ya know, just different. He was always different. 109 00:08:56,369 --> 00:08:59,539 So I'm just gonna go through some of the paperwork 110 00:08:59,622 --> 00:09:02,042 that we got from Grandma. 111 00:09:04,044 --> 00:09:06,880 There's all these papers 112 00:09:06,963 --> 00:09:10,717 from McKean County in Bradford, Pennsylvania, 113 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,012 concerning Dr. William Flickinger. 114 00:09:14,054 --> 00:09:15,513 Grandpa. 115 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:19,059 Did you know what he did in Bradford? 116 00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:22,687 Well, when I started finding out about everything about him, 117 00:09:22,771 --> 00:09:26,066 was when I was, uh, like, a junior. 118 00:09:26,149 --> 00:09:27,400 But what happened? 119 00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:29,527 Like, you don't know what happened. 120 00:09:29,611 --> 00:09:32,530 No, all I remember is coming in to school, 121 00:09:32,614 --> 00:09:35,825 and that's when I walked down the hallway. 122 00:09:35,867 --> 00:09:38,620 Where all the football players were was where my locker was. 123 00:09:38,703 --> 00:09:40,914 And he had-- They started sayin'-- 124 00:09:40,997 --> 00:09:42,332 They surrounded me and they said, 125 00:09:42,374 --> 00:09:44,042 "We wanna do to you to what 126 00:09:44,125 --> 00:09:46,795 your dad did to a-all those girls." 127 00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:51,091 And, of course, Grandma didn't say a word of anything, 128 00:09:51,174 --> 00:09:54,052 -so it was all just-- -But even you and your brothers, 129 00:09:54,135 --> 00:09:57,222 -like, did you talk ab-- like, "Wh-What the hell happened?" -No. 130 00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:59,432 We never talked about anything. 131 00:09:59,808 --> 00:10:02,519 We were never allowed to see any newspapers. 132 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,647 I, to this day, I know nothing. 133 00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:09,150 I just wanna try to line it all up, 134 00:10:09,234 --> 00:10:10,694 see what happened. 135 00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:13,279 Look at, ya know, some of these names. 136 00:10:13,363 --> 00:10:15,031 I just-- I don't know. 137 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:17,909 I wanna know more about what he did up in Bradford. 138 00:10:17,951 --> 00:10:20,412 I mean, it's crazy that you don't even know. 139 00:10:41,141 --> 00:10:42,642 Thank you for calling. 140 00:10:42,726 --> 00:10:44,978 -God. -For service, press one. 141 00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:48,189 Hi, my name is Amanda, 142 00:10:48,273 --> 00:10:51,776 and I'm looking for an article from the '70s. 143 00:10:58,616 --> 00:11:00,869 You have reached the Filing Office 144 00:11:00,952 --> 00:11:02,704 of the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania. 145 00:11:02,787 --> 00:11:05,290 That far back, I can't make any guarantees, 146 00:11:05,331 --> 00:11:06,291 but I could take a look. 147 00:11:11,254 --> 00:11:13,089 I'm just looking for absolutely 148 00:11:13,131 --> 00:11:15,884 any information around this case. 149 00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:18,386 No, cannot find case number, no. 150 00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:20,221 "Cannot find case number." 151 00:11:46,581 --> 00:11:48,041 My family is from Bradford, 152 00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:52,170 and there was something terrible that my grandfather did 153 00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:54,839 in Bradford in the '70s. 154 00:11:55,924 --> 00:11:57,759 Does the Bradford Library 155 00:11:57,842 --> 00:12:00,261 keep any records of newspapers? 156 00:12:01,012 --> 00:12:02,305 So it is all on microfilm? 157 00:12:02,347 --> 00:12:04,808 Okay. Thank you so much for your help. 158 00:12:07,811 --> 00:12:09,437 Yes, William Flickinger. 159 00:12:09,521 --> 00:12:11,231 Was he a chiropractor? 160 00:12:11,314 --> 00:12:12,399 He was, yes. 161 00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:14,359 Yeah, I really don't remember much. 162 00:12:14,401 --> 00:12:16,611 This was a long time ago. 163 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:33,837 In '75, he was convicted of statutory rape 164 00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:35,755 of a 12-year-old girl. 165 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,135 So, since it was his first offense, technically, 166 00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:42,053 all he got was two years' probation. 167 00:12:42,137 --> 00:12:44,514 He did not spend a day in jail, 168 00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:47,517 and just up and moved four hours away to Harrisburg 169 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,186 with a totally clean slate. 170 00:12:53,898 --> 00:12:56,568 How the fuck was that allowed to happen? 171 00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:18,757 I've always known my grandpa was creepy, 172 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:20,383 and that some things happened, 173 00:13:20,425 --> 00:13:23,595 but it was so vague, and now that I'm looking closer 174 00:13:23,678 --> 00:13:26,973 and finding concrete rape charges 175 00:13:27,057 --> 00:13:30,226 that he managed to kind of weasel out of, 176 00:13:30,268 --> 00:13:32,520 it's just scratching the surface. 177 00:13:32,604 --> 00:13:34,272 I just need to keep looking. 178 00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:36,483 Maybe I can hold him accountable. 179 00:13:36,733 --> 00:13:38,860 He's still alive. 180 00:13:41,946 --> 00:13:45,075 I never thought that I'd move back to Pennsylvania. 181 00:13:45,116 --> 00:13:49,120 There's a lotta pain in my past here. 182 00:13:50,789 --> 00:13:53,917 My childhood was difficult. 183 00:13:53,958 --> 00:13:57,128 There was so much dysfunction in my family 184 00:13:57,170 --> 00:14:01,466 and no communication about what was really going on. 185 00:14:03,551 --> 00:14:07,305 I just felt this pressure to maintain this image 186 00:14:07,347 --> 00:14:10,809 that we were this picture-perfect Christian family. 187 00:14:10,892 --> 00:14:12,477 I just wanted out. 188 00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:15,814 So a week after I turned 18, 189 00:14:15,855 --> 00:14:20,110 I left my family, my faith, the state. 190 00:14:20,151 --> 00:14:22,987 I eventually left the country. 191 00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:36,209 Ooh! 192 00:14:42,257 --> 00:14:46,011 My childhood dream was to be an ice cream truck driver, 193 00:14:46,052 --> 00:14:50,015 uh, not a photojournalist. 194 00:14:50,807 --> 00:14:55,020 But I love that I get to 195 00:14:55,103 --> 00:14:57,981 make exposing the truth about something 196 00:14:58,023 --> 00:15:00,025 a part of my job. 197 00:15:25,675 --> 00:15:30,221 I managed to put enough distance between me and my family 198 00:15:30,305 --> 00:15:33,558 to give me some healthy perspective. 199 00:15:34,893 --> 00:15:38,438 I had this new understanding and language 200 00:15:38,521 --> 00:15:41,066 to describe things that, for my whole life, 201 00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:42,567 I thought were just normal. 202 00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:48,156 Like, the way that some men treated me and my body, 203 00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:50,658 that was actually assault. 204 00:15:51,076 --> 00:15:56,039 Or my "touchy-feely" grandpa is actually a pedophile. 205 00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,086 I was just starting to reframe this all 206 00:16:01,127 --> 00:16:02,754 when my grandma died. 207 00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:07,258 And it just set me on fire. I had so many questions. 208 00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:10,553 So when my mom asked me to go to Florida with her 209 00:16:10,595 --> 00:16:13,973 to take my grandma's ashes to my grandpa, 210 00:16:14,057 --> 00:16:17,310 I saw my chance to go straight to the source. 211 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,523 If you can talk to it, and clapping your hands 212 00:16:21,606 --> 00:16:24,109 - it'll go to work. Okay? - Okay. 213 00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:27,654 I was so nervous. 214 00:16:27,737 --> 00:16:30,907 - I was so, I was so nervous doing this. You? I-- 215 00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:33,410 Oh, my gosh. I was more nervous. 216 00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:36,121 I think I was so nervous, I wanted to throw up. 217 00:16:36,204 --> 00:16:38,289 -Are you serious? -Mm-hmm. 218 00:16:38,331 --> 00:16:40,625 Because I didn't know what his reaction would be. 219 00:16:40,709 --> 00:16:43,378 I thought, because of his anger, I thought he would just-- 220 00:16:43,461 --> 00:16:45,922 But he's never really been angry with you. 221 00:16:45,964 --> 00:16:48,049 -That you've seen. -That I've seen. 222 00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:49,300 Mm-hmm. 223 00:16:49,342 --> 00:16:51,886 As far as younger girls-- 224 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:54,180 Okay, this I wanna listen to. 225 00:16:54,472 --> 00:16:56,474 Slightly hard-hitting question. 226 00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:58,935 - Oh, that's the last one. - Whew! 227 00:16:58,977 --> 00:17:01,646 Imagine what's goin' on in his mind. 228 00:17:01,688 --> 00:17:04,190 No, you're not really. 229 00:17:04,274 --> 00:17:07,110 As far as younger girls, 230 00:17:07,152 --> 00:17:09,279 what about the girls in the family? 231 00:17:09,654 --> 00:17:13,700 No, I had no problem, no problems with any of them. 232 00:17:13,783 --> 00:17:16,536 Except one time with Debi. 233 00:17:17,203 --> 00:17:20,540 I think she was 5 or 6. 234 00:17:20,623 --> 00:17:22,375 I took a bath with her. 235 00:17:23,543 --> 00:17:25,045 I know you don't. 236 00:17:25,128 --> 00:17:26,254 And I took a bath with her, 237 00:17:26,338 --> 00:17:28,423 -and I touched her in the bathtub. -Oh. 238 00:17:28,506 --> 00:17:31,301 - Listen to-- Oh. - That was as much as it went. 239 00:17:31,343 --> 00:17:34,262 She just loved the activity. 240 00:17:34,346 --> 00:17:35,722 - It's-- I was 5. - And, uh, so, 241 00:17:35,805 --> 00:17:38,058 consequently, she didn't feel it was wrong and I didn't. 242 00:17:38,141 --> 00:17:39,392 -I know it was wrong... -Oh, my God. 243 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:40,685 - ...but I didn't-- - I couldn't help it 244 00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:42,270 'cause she loved it and I loved it, so... 245 00:17:42,354 --> 00:17:44,356 - Oh, my God. - That's as far as-- 246 00:17:45,607 --> 00:17:47,484 No. 247 00:17:47,942 --> 00:17:49,235 See how much you're learnin' today? 248 00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:51,154 That's what you get for comin' down here. 249 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:52,864 That's when I was like... 250 00:17:52,947 --> 00:17:54,908 -I know. -..."We gotta go." 251 00:17:55,784 --> 00:17:57,702 But I'm being very forward with you. 252 00:17:57,786 --> 00:17:59,871 I'm not, I'm not hiding. 253 00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:06,628 The earliest memory, I was, probably, 7 or 8 years old. 254 00:18:07,003 --> 00:18:11,466 All I remember is me laying face down 255 00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:14,177 on one of his chiropractic adjustment tables, 256 00:18:14,219 --> 00:18:18,223 and I felt him doing something on my back, 257 00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:22,310 and I realized that it was his penis, 258 00:18:22,394 --> 00:18:26,022 and he was rubbin' it on my back. 259 00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:28,650 I never thought in a million years 260 00:18:28,733 --> 00:18:30,777 not even to tell my mom. 261 00:18:32,278 --> 00:18:37,242 I don't know. From a child's mind... it was normal. 262 00:19:01,558 --> 00:19:04,602 I think that how I was raised 263 00:19:04,644 --> 00:19:10,442 definitely has given me a skewed view of what a marriage 264 00:19:10,525 --> 00:19:12,569 or a relationship should be. 265 00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:13,528 I was so sheltered, 266 00:19:13,611 --> 00:19:16,448 never was allowed to really date. 267 00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:19,492 And I definitely did not see a healthy relationship 268 00:19:19,576 --> 00:19:23,371 with my mom and my dad, so I had nothing to go by. 269 00:19:24,456 --> 00:19:28,126 And so, I got married at 18. 270 00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:32,380 Ended up having my daughter, Angie, at 20, 271 00:19:32,464 --> 00:19:36,801 and it was a very abusive relationship. 272 00:19:36,843 --> 00:19:41,806 It was almost like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. 273 00:19:44,976 --> 00:19:46,311 I had no other options, 274 00:19:46,353 --> 00:19:49,314 so I moved back in with my parents. 275 00:19:49,356 --> 00:19:51,649 We lived there for several years. 276 00:19:52,233 --> 00:19:55,111 Because of what I experienced in my childhood, 277 00:19:55,153 --> 00:19:57,614 I just wanted to do the right thing. 278 00:19:58,448 --> 00:20:02,619 And I really did trust my mom. 279 00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:06,373 I wanted to prove to myself that you can love a child 280 00:20:06,456 --> 00:20:08,875 without invading them. 281 00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:11,836 I think I wanted to prove to myself 282 00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:14,339 that I could be a good mom. 283 00:20:16,675 --> 00:20:18,301 Yeah! 284 00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:23,306 Yeah! 285 00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:44,661 With Mom, ya know, I feel bad about that relationship 286 00:20:44,703 --> 00:20:47,455 because I feel like there isn't one. 287 00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:50,750 I-I feel really bad how everything has gotten, 288 00:20:50,834 --> 00:20:52,043 and I can't explain it. 289 00:20:52,085 --> 00:20:53,461 Yeah. 290 00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:55,672 I've always known that I've had Mom on a pedestal. 291 00:20:55,714 --> 00:20:58,508 -And because I have, I have such anxiety around it... -Yeah. 292 00:20:58,550 --> 00:21:00,135 ...like, I'll be carrying on my day, 293 00:21:00,218 --> 00:21:01,761 -wherever I am in the world. -Mm-hmm, yeah. 294 00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:03,555 And it'll just hit me. 295 00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:05,557 "Oh, my God... Did Mom fall down the stairs? 296 00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:07,183 Oh, my God, nobody's there. Oh, my God. Oh, my God." 297 00:21:07,225 --> 00:21:08,560 -And I just, like, freak out. -Yeah. 298 00:21:08,643 --> 00:21:10,061 -Right. Yeah. -And I'll start crying. And be like, 299 00:21:10,145 --> 00:21:11,896 "I have to get ahold of her, but it's, like, 3:00 a.m." 300 00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:13,982 And I'm like, "Oh, my God, what if she died in bed?" 301 00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:15,358 -Like... -Oh, my goodness. 302 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,527 -...that's not healthy. No. -Yeah, that's not healthy. 303 00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:19,738 With Mom, it was, 304 00:21:19,821 --> 00:21:21,906 it was just, like, you'd come home from New York, 305 00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:23,658 you'd come home and you'd stay. 306 00:21:23,742 --> 00:21:26,244 And, instantly, it was like the atmosphere... 307 00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:28,371 -I had the gloves on. -...the atmosphere changed. 308 00:21:28,413 --> 00:21:30,749 It was, um, "Amanda mode." That's what we'd say. 309 00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:32,459 -"Amanda mode." -Mom's in "Amanda mode." 310 00:21:32,542 --> 00:21:35,295 -Like, you guys, it's always tense. -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 311 00:21:35,378 --> 00:21:39,299 Um, there's, like, this, this kind of air of tension around it of, like-- 312 00:21:39,382 --> 00:21:41,092 I think it's very passive-aggressive. 313 00:21:41,176 --> 00:21:42,427 -Oh, yeah. -Yeah. 314 00:21:42,469 --> 00:21:45,764 That's what I had to do to, to survive. 315 00:21:46,431 --> 00:21:49,809 Oh, isn't this cozy and nice, Bill? 316 00:21:49,893 --> 00:21:50,685 Yep. 317 00:21:50,769 --> 00:21:53,146 I saw some old video footage 318 00:21:53,229 --> 00:21:56,566 - of, of you when you had the hair thing. - Oh, yes. 319 00:21:56,608 --> 00:21:58,443 And, like, I remember being like, 320 00:21:58,485 --> 00:21:59,944 "What's wrong with Angie's hair?" 321 00:22:00,028 --> 00:22:02,280 Like, just being a stupid kid. 322 00:22:02,364 --> 00:22:04,032 It's like, "Why is Ange bald?" 323 00:22:05,825 --> 00:22:08,620 -And-- -That is so embarrassing. 324 00:22:15,126 --> 00:22:17,128 I don't think we've ever actually talked about that. 325 00:22:17,212 --> 00:22:19,756 It was-- Honestly, I mean, for you to even bring it up-- 326 00:22:19,798 --> 00:22:21,132 - it's really hard. - I'm sorry. 327 00:22:21,216 --> 00:22:22,967 - No, no, no! - I'm sorry. 328 00:22:23,009 --> 00:22:24,552 No, I'm just sayin' it's, 329 00:22:24,636 --> 00:22:27,764 it's not something that-- I'm sorry. 330 00:22:27,806 --> 00:22:29,766 It's okay, I'm sorry. 331 00:22:29,808 --> 00:22:33,228 -I can't put it back in, though. I'm sorry. -No, it's okay, it's okay. 332 00:22:33,311 --> 00:22:35,397 These-- This is part of the healing, ya know? 333 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,649 Mm-hmm. 334 00:22:37,691 --> 00:22:42,404 It was such a shameful, embarrassing thing 335 00:22:42,487 --> 00:22:44,155 that I did, and it was like-- 336 00:22:44,239 --> 00:22:48,243 Oh, my gosh, it made me so ugly. 337 00:22:48,326 --> 00:22:51,079 But I just hated, like-- 338 00:22:51,496 --> 00:22:54,165 Ya know, it made my self-esteem even worse. 339 00:22:54,249 --> 00:22:55,375 Mm-hmm. 340 00:22:59,004 --> 00:23:03,800 Part of Grandpa's video is you in our house, 341 00:23:03,842 --> 00:23:06,177 and you're sittin' and playin' video games, 342 00:23:06,261 --> 00:23:10,098 and he's zoomin' in and out of your head. 343 00:23:10,181 --> 00:23:12,851 But I'm just kinda like, "What prompted him to do that?" 344 00:23:12,892 --> 00:23:14,686 Yeah. Yeah. Did he know that 345 00:23:14,728 --> 00:23:18,189 - that was a sign of what he had done? - I'm sure. 346 00:23:18,773 --> 00:23:23,153 I don't just blame Grandpa. I, I blame Mom as well. 347 00:23:23,194 --> 00:23:27,198 She subjected... her daughter, 348 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,451 put her right in 349 00:23:29,534 --> 00:23:31,911 with the very person that hurt her the worst. 350 00:23:31,995 --> 00:23:33,121 Mom put you... 351 00:23:33,204 --> 00:23:35,498 -Put me right into-- Yeah. -...right in Grandpa's hands. 352 00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:37,167 Like, we're gonna live with them, 353 00:23:37,208 --> 00:23:39,044 and not only that, but 354 00:23:39,085 --> 00:23:42,964 -I'm gonna let him and, ya know, Grandma... -Mm-hmm. 355 00:23:43,048 --> 00:23:45,550 ...watch my daughter while I go to work, 356 00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:48,720 or go on dates, or whatever. 357 00:23:51,348 --> 00:23:53,600 Go, Angie! 358 00:23:53,683 --> 00:23:56,936 Higher... higher! 359 00:23:58,104 --> 00:23:59,230 Higher! 360 00:23:59,314 --> 00:24:00,899 Ya know, even as sisters, 361 00:24:00,982 --> 00:24:03,193 the whole 10 years before you were born, 362 00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:06,905 there was a lot that happened to me that you didn't know. 363 00:24:08,281 --> 00:24:11,618 I went to visit Grandpa and Grandma when I was 9. 364 00:24:11,701 --> 00:24:14,579 Mom flew me out there by myself, 365 00:24:14,621 --> 00:24:17,374 and I stayed with them for a full month 366 00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:19,250 in their motorhome. 367 00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,753 Stuff happened while I was there. 368 00:24:21,795 --> 00:24:23,755 He was, like, touchy-feely. 369 00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:27,509 He'd say, "This is just a secret thing between you and I." 370 00:24:30,804 --> 00:24:35,475 So we were traveling from one campsite to the next, 371 00:24:35,558 --> 00:24:37,435 and we happened to stop at a place 372 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,562 where they were selling motorhomes. 373 00:24:39,604 --> 00:24:42,899 And I went into the bathroom. 374 00:24:42,941 --> 00:24:46,903 For whatever reason, opened up the cabinet 375 00:24:46,945 --> 00:24:52,701 and there was a little, tiny lipstick under there, 376 00:24:52,784 --> 00:24:55,370 and whatever possessed me, 377 00:24:55,453 --> 00:24:58,164 or I thought to do this, I took the lipstick, 378 00:24:58,248 --> 00:25:04,129 and I wrote in really big letters across the mirror, "Sex," 379 00:25:04,212 --> 00:25:05,755 in red lipstick. 380 00:25:08,091 --> 00:25:10,468 And went back out, 381 00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,555 and just stood there like nothing happened. 382 00:25:14,556 --> 00:25:17,183 And Grandma just pulled me aside 383 00:25:17,267 --> 00:25:21,104 and asked me if I had written on the bathroom mirror. 384 00:25:21,146 --> 00:25:24,524 And I said, "Yep." And that was that. 385 00:25:24,607 --> 00:25:27,402 She didn't ask me 386 00:25:27,485 --> 00:25:29,529 why I did it, 387 00:25:29,612 --> 00:25:33,825 but I felt like I was trying to tell the world, 388 00:25:33,867 --> 00:25:35,994 and nobody was listening. 389 00:25:42,917 --> 00:25:47,047 Mom and Grandma knew, they knew this was going on, 390 00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,133 but there was never anything said. 391 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,720 It was almost as though he was protected. 392 00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:56,890 I dealt with it the same way 393 00:25:56,973 --> 00:26:00,602 that the rest of the family was dealing with it. 394 00:26:00,685 --> 00:26:02,937 I bottled it up. 395 00:26:34,094 --> 00:26:37,722 - I have a question for you. - If you if you... 396 00:26:38,515 --> 00:26:42,060 have one or two words to describe our family, 397 00:26:42,102 --> 00:26:43,895 what would they be? 398 00:26:45,021 --> 00:26:49,442 Dysfunction-palooza. 399 00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:51,403 -Yeah. -Hm. 400 00:26:51,486 --> 00:26:54,114 When I was really young, Dad had a, a table. 401 00:26:54,197 --> 00:26:56,074 -It was like an adjustment table... -Mm-hmm. 402 00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,743 ...and we picked it up to take it out, 403 00:26:58,827 --> 00:27:02,914 and out fell of it a toy, um... 404 00:27:03,123 --> 00:27:06,793 Like plastic dildo... with a sock. 405 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:09,337 That was in-- It was tucked inside a sock. 406 00:27:09,421 --> 00:27:12,799 -And I looked at it, and I knew what it was immediately. -Mm-hmm. 407 00:27:12,882 --> 00:27:15,927 And he just picked it up, and put it in his pocket. 408 00:27:15,969 --> 00:27:19,806 When you grow up in a dysfunctional environment like that, 409 00:27:19,889 --> 00:27:21,850 you don't know th-that it is 410 00:27:21,933 --> 00:27:23,643 -because that's all you know. -Mm-hmm. 411 00:27:23,727 --> 00:27:25,854 Like, how did you feel when you were younger? 412 00:27:25,937 --> 00:27:27,939 -I mean, even t-- How did you manage that? -How can ya feel? 413 00:27:28,023 --> 00:27:29,983 -I don't know how you feel. -Hm. 414 00:27:30,066 --> 00:27:32,986 It's just like-- I guess it's like, 415 00:27:33,069 --> 00:27:35,864 "This is happening in front of me. 416 00:27:38,533 --> 00:27:39,826 I don't know what to do about it." 417 00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:41,786 -Yeah. -'Cause it's not really my place. 418 00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:45,457 -I don't know... what it is. -Mm-hmm. 419 00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:55,133 But I felt, for a long time, that the best thing 420 00:27:55,216 --> 00:27:57,802 that could've happened to us, as a family, 421 00:27:58,261 --> 00:28:01,222 would've been if we had been taken out 422 00:28:01,264 --> 00:28:04,351 by a firing squad in 1975. 423 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,607 Nothing terrible had happened. 424 00:28:10,648 --> 00:28:12,609 We were still a unit. 425 00:28:13,068 --> 00:28:16,112 We even sang in church as a family together. 426 00:28:16,154 --> 00:28:19,074 And after we sang, the, the preacher took us up 427 00:28:19,157 --> 00:28:22,202 and said, "Now look at this family." 428 00:28:22,285 --> 00:28:23,995 That was our best. 429 00:28:24,454 --> 00:28:28,917 From there, it just obliterated to where there's nothing left. 430 00:28:32,003 --> 00:28:34,339 Ya know, we can all point blame at each other, 431 00:28:34,422 --> 00:28:36,174 we can all blame Dad. 432 00:28:36,841 --> 00:28:39,844 None of us would ever dare blame Mom. 433 00:28:41,846 --> 00:28:44,808 Did Grandma ever open up with you about it? 434 00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:46,309 About how she felt? 435 00:28:52,524 --> 00:28:55,860 There was this one time when I was real little. 436 00:28:55,902 --> 00:28:57,779 It was just a typical night. 437 00:28:57,862 --> 00:28:59,322 And the bathroom door was open, 438 00:28:59,364 --> 00:29:01,825 so I kind of peeked my eye into that little crack, 439 00:29:01,866 --> 00:29:04,494 and I looked and I saw her 440 00:29:04,536 --> 00:29:06,329 standing in front of the mirror 441 00:29:06,371 --> 00:29:08,206 with a razor blade. 442 00:29:08,248 --> 00:29:11,209 And she was just kinda chopping at her hair, 443 00:29:11,292 --> 00:29:16,006 and crying, and her hands were bleeding. 444 00:29:16,047 --> 00:29:18,299 So, I let the door go open a little bit, 445 00:29:18,383 --> 00:29:20,927 and I was like, "Mom, please don't do that." 446 00:29:21,011 --> 00:29:24,556 And she turned, and she was shocked that I caught her, 447 00:29:24,639 --> 00:29:27,642 and she bandaged up her fingers, and she cleaned up, 448 00:29:27,726 --> 00:29:29,853 and she hugged me, and... 449 00:29:29,894 --> 00:29:32,397 she felt like she had failed us. 450 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,443 I know that that was somethin' that she carried with her. 451 00:29:47,871 --> 00:29:50,915 We're less of a family than we've ever been. 452 00:29:51,374 --> 00:29:56,463 And God forbid that the fallout just continues to grow. 453 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:18,193 Hello, darling. 454 00:30:19,069 --> 00:30:22,530 - Hi, how are ya? - Hi. I'm great. 455 00:30:22,614 --> 00:30:23,823 How are you? Hello, gorgeous. 456 00:30:23,907 --> 00:30:25,658 Then your precious, wonderful mother 457 00:30:25,742 --> 00:30:28,078 put this together. 458 00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:29,454 So... 459 00:30:30,038 --> 00:30:32,624 - There she is. - She was so pretty. 460 00:30:32,665 --> 00:30:35,502 She was. She was a sweet doll. 461 00:30:35,585 --> 00:30:38,838 Can you share some memories of Grandma? 462 00:30:38,922 --> 00:30:40,757 Like, how did you guys meet? 463 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:41,966 We met at church. 464 00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:44,844 They had a Bible study on a Wednesday night. 465 00:30:44,928 --> 00:30:46,888 We started dating, and so, we were dating 466 00:30:46,971 --> 00:30:48,515 for about, uh, three months, 467 00:30:48,598 --> 00:30:51,184 and we-- then we got engaged. 468 00:31:03,863 --> 00:31:08,076 Oh, she was so precious. I mean, so precious. 469 00:31:08,284 --> 00:31:10,704 She was great with the kids. 470 00:31:11,246 --> 00:31:13,498 She couldn't do anything wrong. 471 00:31:14,082 --> 00:31:17,335 She was such a marvelous, wonderful woman. 472 00:31:24,843 --> 00:31:28,096 What about your life before then? 473 00:31:28,179 --> 00:31:30,306 What was it like growing up? 474 00:31:30,348 --> 00:31:31,599 Hm. 475 00:31:32,392 --> 00:31:35,562 Well, I don't know where I would even start with that. 476 00:31:35,645 --> 00:31:36,855 Um... 477 00:31:37,188 --> 00:31:41,192 my mom was this marvelous, wonderful, great woman. 478 00:31:41,526 --> 00:31:43,695 She was fantastic. 479 00:31:43,737 --> 00:31:45,196 Dad, he was always a busy guy. 480 00:31:45,238 --> 00:31:47,115 He worked at Zippo lighters. 481 00:31:47,198 --> 00:31:51,494 And, of course, he loved the girls there, too. 482 00:31:51,536 --> 00:31:54,622 He went out with quite a few of the women, so. 483 00:31:54,706 --> 00:31:57,000 He'd come home with lipstick all over his face, 484 00:31:57,042 --> 00:31:59,586 and his clothes off, or his collars and stuff 485 00:31:59,669 --> 00:32:01,755 'cause you know darn well he was smoochin' up 486 00:32:01,838 --> 00:32:04,382 with the women at Zippo parties. 487 00:32:06,051 --> 00:32:07,719 Although, Mom didn't complain any. 488 00:32:07,761 --> 00:32:11,556 If she, she did, she didn't do it in front of me, but. 489 00:32:13,391 --> 00:32:15,727 But anyway, that's beside the point. 490 00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:17,979 He and I were not very close. 491 00:32:18,063 --> 00:32:21,232 He wanted a girl so bad, he didn't want a boy. 492 00:32:21,274 --> 00:32:22,734 And if I did something outta line, 493 00:32:22,776 --> 00:32:24,611 I got a beating for it. 494 00:32:24,694 --> 00:32:26,446 It was a tough time. 495 00:32:27,739 --> 00:32:30,325 Um... this-- 496 00:32:30,408 --> 00:32:33,578 You can answer this if you want. I'm just curious. 497 00:32:33,661 --> 00:32:36,164 Curiosity killed the cat. 498 00:32:36,247 --> 00:32:38,875 - That's right. - Um... 499 00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:41,044 as you were growing up, 500 00:32:41,086 --> 00:32:44,422 did your attraction stay with children? 501 00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:46,049 Yeah, pretty much. 502 00:32:46,091 --> 00:32:48,885 I think most of my life it did, yes. 503 00:33:10,949 --> 00:33:14,452 You know, I-I just couldn't seem to control it too much. 504 00:33:14,536 --> 00:33:16,621 It just went that way. 505 00:33:34,305 --> 00:33:36,057 Was there anybody that you ever 506 00:33:36,141 --> 00:33:37,475 felt like you could talk to about it? 507 00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:38,852 Did you ever open up? 508 00:33:38,935 --> 00:33:41,563 I wished I could've. 509 00:33:41,646 --> 00:33:44,274 I really did wish-- I-I wanted to talk to somebody, 510 00:33:44,315 --> 00:33:47,610 but I didn't know who I could really talk to. 511 00:33:56,411 --> 00:33:58,496 The girls were so special to me. 512 00:33:58,705 --> 00:34:02,500 The girls were always so, so warm and nice, ya know? 513 00:34:03,418 --> 00:34:07,839 So, I was explaining to of how babies came about. 514 00:34:07,881 --> 00:34:10,467 And, uh, we more or less 515 00:34:10,508 --> 00:34:13,386 experimented that at that point. 516 00:34:32,822 --> 00:34:35,658 And, of course, naturally, she's a little bit-- 517 00:34:35,700 --> 00:34:39,871 Uh, just... feeling with her and so forth. 518 00:34:39,954 --> 00:34:42,582 And then she would lay on top of me. 519 00:35:16,574 --> 00:35:21,996 Because of all this... I've been thinking a lot about, 520 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,290 which I-I usually don't. 521 00:35:24,374 --> 00:35:30,338 I feel like when I think about, you know, my own experience 522 00:35:30,422 --> 00:35:33,341 being raped by-- 523 00:35:33,425 --> 00:35:36,386 It was around nine years ago, and-- 524 00:35:36,428 --> 00:35:39,723 by my friend's boyfriend at the time. 525 00:35:40,932 --> 00:35:42,934 And 526 00:35:43,018 --> 00:35:44,269 it was a mess, it was a mess. 527 00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:47,188 It was-- Took me years to even, like, 528 00:35:47,272 --> 00:35:49,858 use the "R word," and... 529 00:35:56,156 --> 00:35:59,325 I do feel like I've dealt very well with it, 530 00:35:59,409 --> 00:36:00,952 but, occasionally, it crops its head up, 531 00:36:01,036 --> 00:36:04,456 and what it is for me is just that 532 00:36:05,331 --> 00:36:09,461 the guy who did it and my friend, who was dating him, 533 00:36:09,502 --> 00:36:13,715 who victim-blamed me when I told her about it, um... 534 00:36:13,798 --> 00:36:17,761 It's just knowing that they don't-- 535 00:36:21,973 --> 00:36:23,975 Fuck. 536 00:36:24,017 --> 00:36:26,478 It's just knowing that... 537 00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:29,814 they do not think that they did anything wrong. 538 00:36:30,732 --> 00:36:33,943 What's still missing is, is just, just that acknowledgment, 539 00:36:33,985 --> 00:36:39,157 ya know, of... of, like, it happened, 540 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,284 ya know, from the people that were involved. 541 00:36:41,326 --> 00:36:45,997 It, it fucking happened, and not having that, 542 00:36:46,081 --> 00:36:48,208 it's just the gift that keeps on giving. 543 00:36:48,291 --> 00:36:50,043 Truly. 544 00:36:57,467 --> 00:36:59,302 It feels very crystal clear to me right now 545 00:36:59,344 --> 00:37:01,262 why I'm making this film. 546 00:37:01,346 --> 00:37:03,264 Just that acknowledgment. 547 00:37:04,099 --> 00:37:07,936 I don't think that I'm gonna receive that closure for my own assault, 548 00:37:08,019 --> 00:37:12,857 but if I can give that to... the women that suffered 549 00:37:12,941 --> 00:37:15,568 at the hands of my grandfather, 550 00:37:15,652 --> 00:37:19,155 if I can be the one to step forward, 551 00:37:19,197 --> 00:37:20,407 and on the record, say, 552 00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:23,785 "He did this. You can't fucking deny it." 553 00:37:23,868 --> 00:37:27,163 If it gives them the peace of mind of, of knowing 554 00:37:27,205 --> 00:37:30,375 that their pain is acknowledged, 555 00:37:30,458 --> 00:37:32,293 and that the work they've had to do over the years, 556 00:37:32,335 --> 00:37:36,297 and that weight that they've had to carry, 557 00:37:36,381 --> 00:37:38,049 is acknowledged, then... 558 00:37:38,842 --> 00:37:41,886 it's the very fuckin' least that I can do 559 00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:45,640 as the granddaughter of this piece of shit. 560 00:38:04,075 --> 00:38:10,540 These are letters for people that Grandpa may have impacted. 561 00:38:12,917 --> 00:38:15,754 "Dear Blank, I'm writing to you as you may have been 562 00:38:15,837 --> 00:38:18,048 "a past patient of William Flickinger, 563 00:38:18,089 --> 00:38:19,257 "based on his paperwork. 564 00:38:19,341 --> 00:38:20,633 "I discovered that he had abused 565 00:38:20,717 --> 00:38:22,218 "scores of girls and young women, 566 00:38:22,302 --> 00:38:24,262 "and I'm in the process of seeking accountability 567 00:38:24,304 --> 00:38:25,597 "for my grandfather's actions, 568 00:38:25,638 --> 00:38:27,474 "and helping those who have been abused by him 569 00:38:27,557 --> 00:38:30,977 feel less afraid to speak out if they so choose." 570 00:38:32,645 --> 00:38:34,439 I feel very nervous doing this. 571 00:38:34,481 --> 00:38:36,858 Just feel like every one of these is 572 00:38:36,941 --> 00:38:40,445 dropping a little bomb in these people's lives. 573 00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:44,616 "If this message isn't relevant to you, please disregard. 574 00:38:44,657 --> 00:38:47,452 "If it is relevant, we deeply apologize on behalf of our family 575 00:38:47,535 --> 00:38:50,955 for what he put you or your loved ones through." 576 00:38:53,416 --> 00:38:56,086 Have you talked to any of the people 577 00:38:56,127 --> 00:38:57,879 that you may have hurt? 578 00:38:57,962 --> 00:39:00,090 And maybe apologized? 579 00:39:00,131 --> 00:39:02,175 That has not materialized. 580 00:39:02,258 --> 00:39:04,260 Now, her brother, 581 00:39:04,302 --> 00:39:08,223 has been the instigator to try and do that. 582 00:39:08,306 --> 00:39:09,265 Who? 583 00:39:09,307 --> 00:39:10,392 Paul. 584 00:39:10,892 --> 00:39:12,727 That I should go. I should write letters, 585 00:39:12,811 --> 00:39:15,563 or I should go and talk to these people. 586 00:39:15,647 --> 00:39:18,775 And to a point, I can understand what he's comin' from. 587 00:39:18,817 --> 00:39:21,820 But I haven't got the guts to do that. 588 00:39:21,861 --> 00:39:23,822 Because if this opened up a can of worms, 589 00:39:23,905 --> 00:39:26,950 well then, are they gonna decide to take this to court 590 00:39:26,991 --> 00:39:30,495 and send me to prison for the rest of my life? 591 00:39:31,413 --> 00:39:33,498 And that's what could happen. 592 00:39:33,915 --> 00:39:36,793 But wouldn't that just be a consequence? 593 00:40:01,693 --> 00:40:03,570 When I have... 594 00:40:03,653 --> 00:40:05,530 thoughts about your grandfather, 595 00:40:05,613 --> 00:40:08,324 he's still that big, bad boogeyman 596 00:40:08,366 --> 00:40:10,952 in my childhood mind. 597 00:40:11,369 --> 00:40:14,122 This started when I was 4 years old 598 00:40:14,205 --> 00:40:16,249 at Herd Chiropractic. 599 00:40:16,332 --> 00:40:18,835 I was, I was, I was little. 600 00:40:18,877 --> 00:40:19,669 Mm-hmm. 601 00:40:19,711 --> 00:40:23,006 So, he would see us either 602 00:40:23,048 --> 00:40:24,549 at his chiropractic office, 603 00:40:24,591 --> 00:40:28,219 which he ended up having my mom work for him, 604 00:40:28,261 --> 00:40:30,430 which brought us in more. 605 00:40:30,805 --> 00:40:35,101 He got so comfortable doing what he was doing to me 606 00:40:35,185 --> 00:40:38,063 that he would do it in front of my younger siblings. 607 00:40:38,104 --> 00:40:39,064 Mm-hmm. 608 00:40:39,147 --> 00:40:40,523 And I remember the one time, 609 00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:42,859 he tried to make it seem like it was a normal exam... 610 00:40:42,901 --> 00:40:44,235 -Mm-hmm. -...where I had to take 611 00:40:44,319 --> 00:40:45,904 my pants down or pull my dress up, 612 00:40:45,945 --> 00:40:47,864 and, and, um, 613 00:40:47,906 --> 00:40:49,407 I was crying, and I was like, 614 00:40:49,491 --> 00:40:50,950 "Please, can I pull my pants up, please?" 615 00:40:51,034 --> 00:40:53,745 -I was begging him, just bawling. -Mm-hmm. 616 00:40:53,828 --> 00:40:56,289 I was so embarrassed, um... 617 00:40:56,373 --> 00:40:58,249 So, all I remember is looking over, 618 00:40:58,291 --> 00:40:59,417 and Matthew had come over, 619 00:40:59,501 --> 00:41:01,628 and started beating on his leg, 620 00:41:01,711 --> 00:41:03,922 -"Leave my sister alone, leave my sister alone!" -Mm. 621 00:41:03,963 --> 00:41:04,798 Ya know? 622 00:41:04,881 --> 00:41:06,883 And he grabbed him by his throat, 623 00:41:06,925 --> 00:41:10,261 picked him up, and put him back in the chair, 624 00:41:10,345 --> 00:41:12,472 and told him not to move. 625 00:41:22,315 --> 00:41:24,401 And nobody knew. 626 00:41:25,235 --> 00:41:29,656 And I'm thinking, "My mom is in the next room with Lois." 627 00:41:29,739 --> 00:41:31,491 - Grandma. - So, for a long time-- 628 00:41:31,574 --> 00:41:36,413 Yeah. How can they not bust through that door and help me? 629 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,916 I didn't necessarily hold a grudge against your grandmother, 630 00:41:39,958 --> 00:41:44,254 but I was like, "How could she not have known?" 631 00:41:45,714 --> 00:41:49,551 Her name is not Lois. Did you know that? 632 00:41:49,634 --> 00:41:52,512 - No! - Her name is Salesta, 633 00:41:52,595 --> 00:41:54,806 and he hated her name so much 634 00:41:54,889 --> 00:41:57,058 that he had everyone call her Lois 635 00:41:57,142 --> 00:42:00,603 and made her go by Lois. 636 00:42:00,645 --> 00:42:02,814 I'd love to say that I'm shocked, but I'm not. 637 00:42:02,856 --> 00:42:04,983 So her name is Salesta. 638 00:42:05,025 --> 00:42:08,319 -Thank you for that. Wow. -Yeah. 639 00:42:09,988 --> 00:42:12,323 After everything he did, 640 00:42:12,407 --> 00:42:16,453 not only to me, but to so many others, 641 00:42:16,494 --> 00:42:19,998 I've realized it's not my secret to keep. 642 00:42:20,081 --> 00:42:21,499 It was his. 643 00:42:26,171 --> 00:42:29,007 Everyone has always said you have to forgive, 644 00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:30,675 forgive or you're gonna burn in hell. 645 00:42:30,717 --> 00:42:33,553 Fuck the word "forgive." I hate it. 646 00:42:33,636 --> 00:42:36,014 What I need to do in my life 647 00:42:36,056 --> 00:42:38,600 to get past the emotional barriers 648 00:42:38,641 --> 00:42:42,937 that are holding me back at 4 years old, 6 years old, 649 00:42:43,021 --> 00:42:44,856 being in a courtroom having to face him 650 00:42:44,898 --> 00:42:47,484 while he sat there like this, 651 00:42:47,525 --> 00:42:49,778 staring at me the whole time. 652 00:42:49,861 --> 00:42:53,865 I would just love, in my lifetime, to hear him say, 653 00:42:54,616 --> 00:42:56,576 -"I hurt you." -Mm-hmm. 654 00:42:56,659 --> 00:42:58,745 "And I had no right to do that. 655 00:42:58,828 --> 00:43:01,164 And I acknowledge that I hurt you." 656 00:43:36,783 --> 00:43:38,743 So, I've been trying to make sense of 657 00:43:38,827 --> 00:43:40,286 a lot of things, the timeline, 658 00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:43,331 I've even been talking to a victim from your clinic. 659 00:43:43,415 --> 00:43:45,917 But back in 1979, 660 00:43:46,001 --> 00:43:48,420 I believe you took Bill to court 661 00:43:48,503 --> 00:43:51,089 for a lot of sexual misconduct 662 00:43:51,172 --> 00:43:54,467 that happened towards your employees and patients. 663 00:43:54,551 --> 00:44:00,515 So, I-I'm curious if you know why he wanted to come here, to Harrisburg? 664 00:44:00,598 --> 00:44:02,600 I think things were difficult for him there. 665 00:44:02,684 --> 00:44:04,769 I think he was having difficulty there. 666 00:44:04,853 --> 00:44:06,396 - Up in Bradford? - Yes. 667 00:44:06,438 --> 00:44:08,898 Okay, but you-- they-- there wasn't any information 668 00:44:08,940 --> 00:44:11,151 about the, the nature of what was going on? 669 00:44:11,234 --> 00:44:13,236 Not at that-- Well... 670 00:44:18,783 --> 00:44:20,827 I may have contacted his pastor, 671 00:44:20,910 --> 00:44:23,288 and there may have been that, you know, "Be cautious," 672 00:44:23,371 --> 00:44:24,664 and things like that around. 673 00:44:24,748 --> 00:44:26,207 -There was a warning. -Yeah, I think there was 674 00:44:26,291 --> 00:44:28,877 a warning given to us that there could be some problem, 675 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,796 but I... I may have just brushed that aside, 676 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,007 and, and said I'd be careful. 677 00:44:34,090 --> 00:44:36,551 -We were deceived to believe. -Well, well-- 678 00:44:36,634 --> 00:44:38,803 -We, we were deceived. -We, we had thought-- Before he came down, 679 00:44:38,845 --> 00:44:41,181 we had thought he turned, you know, new leaf, that he-- 680 00:44:41,264 --> 00:44:44,100 -We didn't, didn't know that-- -I didn't know what happened up there. 681 00:44:44,142 --> 00:44:46,019 Did you know what happened? I didn't know. 682 00:44:46,102 --> 00:44:47,854 No, we knew there was problems, that's all. 683 00:44:47,937 --> 00:44:49,606 Well, I didn't know what the problems were. 684 00:44:49,647 --> 00:44:51,941 I was ignorant to that fact. 685 00:44:52,317 --> 00:44:53,234 But if I would've known, 686 00:44:53,318 --> 00:44:55,153 he would've never been in our office. 687 00:44:55,236 --> 00:44:56,029 Ever. 688 00:44:56,112 --> 00:44:58,448 When did you first recognize 689 00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:00,200 that something was wrong? 690 00:45:00,283 --> 00:45:03,787 Well, apparently, a, a young girl had come into the office. 691 00:45:03,828 --> 00:45:05,997 This girl was 13 years old. 692 00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:08,708 And he asked, he says, "Come on back, I'll check your spine." 693 00:45:08,792 --> 00:45:11,169 And he had her take her blouse off and her bra off. 694 00:45:11,252 --> 00:45:13,880 It was another patient, too, I thought was involved. 695 00:45:13,963 --> 00:45:15,298 Well, we're talkin' about this right now. 696 00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:17,550 But I thought it was another patient was involved 697 00:45:17,634 --> 00:45:20,261 who-- that really made you so upset. 698 00:45:20,345 --> 00:45:24,516 I don't know, but then just shortly after that time, Barb and I, 699 00:45:24,557 --> 00:45:28,228 we had a housekeeper, and, uh, she was with the kids. 700 00:45:28,311 --> 00:45:31,314 She went down the basement, and Bill was laying on top 701 00:45:31,356 --> 00:45:32,816 of our 12-year-old girl. 702 00:45:32,857 --> 00:45:37,195 - I just couldn't sleep. I was so angry... Oh, well, absolutely. 703 00:45:37,237 --> 00:45:39,864 ...that there could be a possibility that somebody 704 00:45:39,948 --> 00:45:41,866 would harm one of my children, 705 00:45:41,908 --> 00:45:45,620 or, or destroy our good name. 706 00:45:45,704 --> 00:45:47,163 It really made me angry. 707 00:45:51,251 --> 00:45:54,045 I called an attorney, and he came in, and brought Bill in, 708 00:45:54,087 --> 00:45:56,214 and we terminated him right then. 709 00:45:56,256 --> 00:45:59,217 -It probably was the next day. -Oh, no, on the spot. 710 00:46:01,386 --> 00:46:05,557 And then filed a complaint with the Chiropractic Board. 711 00:46:05,598 --> 00:46:07,225 And they had a hearing, 712 00:46:07,267 --> 00:46:10,687 and he had many, many people come and defend him at that. 713 00:46:10,729 --> 00:46:12,731 That caused a lot of tension between... 714 00:46:12,814 --> 00:46:15,233 - Our friends. - ...our family and our friends like that. 715 00:46:15,316 --> 00:46:17,902 Yeah, we weren't trying to destroy this man. 716 00:46:17,944 --> 00:46:20,238 He was destroying himself. 717 00:46:23,408 --> 00:46:26,369 They did take his license at that point. 718 00:46:29,122 --> 00:46:30,790 And then life went on, 719 00:46:30,874 --> 00:46:33,001 except emotionally getting over it. 720 00:46:33,084 --> 00:46:35,086 I came to the place where I said-- 721 00:46:35,170 --> 00:46:37,297 I just-- I told God, "I give it to you. 722 00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:40,383 Lord, I-I can't carry it. It's too heavy for me." 723 00:46:42,510 --> 00:46:44,637 So he lost his license, but he did not go to prison. 724 00:46:44,721 --> 00:46:49,059 What do you guys think would've been the ideal situation? 725 00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:52,395 Well, I don't know, uh... 726 00:46:52,437 --> 00:46:55,273 Prison. I don't, I don't-- I d-- I simply don't know. 727 00:46:55,315 --> 00:46:58,443 My baser nature is I wanted to get a gun and shoot him. 728 00:47:04,574 --> 00:47:07,619 The case with the Herds was one of a few 729 00:47:07,660 --> 00:47:09,329 that he was involved with. 730 00:47:09,621 --> 00:47:14,209 And ultimately, none of them resulted in anything 731 00:47:14,292 --> 00:47:18,004 that would leave a mark on his record. 732 00:47:18,088 --> 00:47:21,841 It just feels like the whole system failed. 733 00:47:22,342 --> 00:47:26,304 There was nothing to stop him from crossing state lines 734 00:47:26,388 --> 00:47:29,349 and getting a completely fresh start. 735 00:47:31,601 --> 00:47:33,436 And that's what he did. 736 00:47:33,478 --> 00:47:36,523 Him and Grandma packed their lives into an RV 737 00:47:36,606 --> 00:47:40,318 and they left the whole mess that he made behind. 738 00:47:48,743 --> 00:47:52,497 Cleveland, Ohio, on this first day of March. 739 00:47:53,164 --> 00:47:55,667 Tulsa, Oklahoma, this beautiful state. 740 00:47:55,709 --> 00:47:58,044 We're gettin' ready to go to work here in Charlotte 741 00:47:58,128 --> 00:48:00,672 at the, uh, Craft Show. 742 00:48:08,596 --> 00:48:12,100 Samples of what you can do with the Punch Connection. 743 00:48:12,183 --> 00:48:14,019 Come on in to the counter, and we'll give you 744 00:48:14,060 --> 00:48:15,854 the $10 gourmet waffle cutter. 745 00:48:15,937 --> 00:48:17,230 Take home as many as you like. 746 00:48:17,313 --> 00:48:21,067 You could use cabbage, carrots, celery. 747 00:48:21,484 --> 00:48:23,236 Look, you're on TV. 748 00:48:25,697 --> 00:48:27,240 Isn't that neat? 749 00:48:27,615 --> 00:48:31,119 Now, if you take this same bagging process, 750 00:48:31,202 --> 00:48:33,329 and we use it in our freezer. 751 00:48:33,371 --> 00:48:36,374 They became traveling salesmen. 752 00:48:36,416 --> 00:48:38,668 They went from one state to another, 753 00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:40,462 living in different campgrounds. 754 00:48:40,545 --> 00:48:42,964 And they were selling vacuum sealers 755 00:48:43,048 --> 00:48:45,550 and rubber stamps at local trade shows. 756 00:48:45,633 --> 00:48:48,178 And that's pretty much all that we would know 757 00:48:48,219 --> 00:48:51,056 about Grandpa from those years, 758 00:48:51,139 --> 00:48:55,393 if he hadn't brought his video camera with him. 759 00:48:58,938 --> 00:49:02,400 Uh-oh, you girls are on "Candid Camera." 760 00:49:04,361 --> 00:49:06,863 Turn around and be a star for me. 761 00:49:23,129 --> 00:49:24,714 It isn't every day we get to have 762 00:49:24,756 --> 00:49:26,132 movie stars in our midst. 763 00:49:26,216 --> 00:49:28,760 Oh, I'm not no movie star. 764 00:49:33,932 --> 00:49:35,266 She really wants you to tape her, 765 00:49:35,308 --> 00:49:37,268 but she won't act like it. 766 00:49:37,644 --> 00:49:39,646 Don't, no. 767 00:49:56,788 --> 00:49:58,289 No, there's more. 768 00:50:00,667 --> 00:50:02,127 Will you get that off! 769 00:50:05,463 --> 00:50:07,757 See? You're scarin' her. 770 00:50:08,383 --> 00:50:11,052 Come back to see us at the Craft Show. 771 00:50:11,136 --> 00:50:12,721 We're here. 772 00:50:13,847 --> 00:50:14,806 Um... 773 00:50:21,187 --> 00:50:23,440 When I watch these tapes, 774 00:50:23,481 --> 00:50:26,651 I see a man with a serious problem 775 00:50:26,693 --> 00:50:29,446 who knows that he's not gonna get caught, 776 00:50:29,487 --> 00:50:31,614 and I can't help but feel like 777 00:50:31,656 --> 00:50:35,326 if there had just been some way for him to get help, 778 00:50:35,368 --> 00:50:39,664 how much of all of this could've been prevented? 779 00:50:41,666 --> 00:50:42,459 Oh! 780 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:44,836 But he just kept going 781 00:50:44,878 --> 00:50:49,174 until the early '90s when they landed in Florida, 782 00:50:49,215 --> 00:50:52,677 and moved in next door to a kid named Christine. 783 00:50:58,475 --> 00:51:00,310 So, I do have a question. 784 00:51:00,352 --> 00:51:02,604 And, and I-I feel like I should be able 785 00:51:02,687 --> 00:51:05,231 - to ask this question. - Okay. 786 00:51:05,315 --> 00:51:10,737 I want to know how you found me. 787 00:51:11,154 --> 00:51:13,031 Oh, of course, so my-- 788 00:51:13,073 --> 00:51:15,909 It was all in my grandfather's paperwork. 789 00:51:15,992 --> 00:51:18,870 Okay. 'Cause, you know, there's always that fear 790 00:51:18,953 --> 00:51:20,413 that you put somebody in jail 791 00:51:20,497 --> 00:51:22,624 and their family wants to retaliate. 792 00:51:22,707 --> 00:51:24,459 - Oh, my gosh. - Of course, there is not 793 00:51:24,542 --> 00:51:28,588 a single person in my family that would, would defend him. 794 00:51:28,672 --> 00:51:30,840 - Absolutely. - Okay. 795 00:51:30,924 --> 00:51:32,509 The day of the incident he told me, 796 00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:35,136 "You can trust me. I'm a doctor." 797 00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:38,223 - Oh, my God. - That's how he got me. 798 00:51:38,306 --> 00:51:43,645 I remember, all of a sudden, I'm down on the ground. 799 00:51:44,062 --> 00:51:45,397 There he is on top of me. 800 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,524 He was like, "If you tell anybody, 801 00:51:47,565 --> 00:51:51,778 -I will kill your parents." -Oh, my God. 802 00:51:51,861 --> 00:51:55,031 And I flipped out, and I kicked him, 803 00:51:55,073 --> 00:51:57,075 and I pushed him off of me. 804 00:51:57,117 --> 00:51:58,535 And I grabbed my bike, 805 00:51:58,576 --> 00:52:01,538 and I came back into the trailer park. 806 00:52:01,955 --> 00:52:06,209 And so, I took measures, and my parents took measures, 807 00:52:06,251 --> 00:52:10,463 and we went through court, and they found him guilty. 808 00:52:10,547 --> 00:52:14,050 You know, it was, it was pretty dramatic being on the stand, 809 00:52:14,092 --> 00:52:16,094 but, you know, I was so worried that 810 00:52:16,136 --> 00:52:17,971 if he did that to me 811 00:52:18,054 --> 00:52:20,265 would he do it to somebody else? 812 00:52:20,807 --> 00:52:24,978 Oh, I mean, I-I-- Thank you for sharing that. 813 00:52:25,061 --> 00:52:26,980 And I am-- I'm just so sorry. 814 00:52:27,063 --> 00:52:32,277 I do want to say how incredibly proud I am that you, you did that 815 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,739 because there were dozens and dozens 816 00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:38,158 - over many, many years. - Jesus Christ. 817 00:52:38,241 --> 00:52:40,785 And he did not go to prison until '92. 818 00:52:40,827 --> 00:52:44,873 - So for that, we have you to thank, and your courage. Mm-hmm. 819 00:52:44,956 --> 00:52:49,419 So, he never served any prison until-- 820 00:52:49,461 --> 00:52:50,879 Until you. 821 00:52:57,635 --> 00:53:01,639 I didn't even know he hurt so many people. 822 00:53:03,058 --> 00:53:05,935 And I didn't want him to do that to anybody else. 823 00:53:05,977 --> 00:53:07,437 Like, I-- 824 00:53:07,479 --> 00:53:09,773 Hoo, sorry. 825 00:53:12,317 --> 00:53:13,526 Can I talk to your mom for a sec? 826 00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:15,695 Oh, sure. I'm right here, go 'head. 827 00:53:15,779 --> 00:53:17,155 Hey. 828 00:53:17,614 --> 00:53:20,367 How are you doing through this? 829 00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:22,535 Well, you know, it's so interesting. 830 00:53:22,619 --> 00:53:24,913 - I have learned that... - Right. 831 00:53:24,996 --> 00:53:26,748 ...um, you can't change the past. 832 00:53:26,831 --> 00:53:29,334 All you can do is change your future. 833 00:53:29,584 --> 00:53:33,421 And I can't change what either of my parents did, 834 00:53:33,505 --> 00:53:36,800 but I have children, ya know, that are all adults now, 835 00:53:36,841 --> 00:53:42,347 and I... tried to protect them at all levels. 836 00:53:43,848 --> 00:53:45,517 I was constantly watching him, 837 00:53:45,558 --> 00:53:48,687 and making sure that my kids were safe. 838 00:53:48,728 --> 00:53:51,022 When I knew that they were coming around, 839 00:53:51,064 --> 00:53:53,733 I was watching him like a hawk. 840 00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:11,418 When Grandpa did go to prison, 841 00:54:12,293 --> 00:54:15,588 I can remember how she told me. 842 00:54:16,256 --> 00:54:20,427 So, Mom had just come in my room and said, 843 00:54:20,510 --> 00:54:22,387 um, "I wanna talk to you about somethin'. 844 00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:23,555 "Did-- I just wanted to let you know 845 00:54:23,638 --> 00:54:25,515 "that Grandpa went to prison 846 00:54:25,557 --> 00:54:29,227 for," I think she did say, "molesting a little girl." 847 00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:30,687 And through clenched teeth, 848 00:54:30,729 --> 00:54:32,439 'cause she really didn't wanna get the words out, 849 00:54:32,522 --> 00:54:35,025 I could tell... she said, 850 00:54:35,066 --> 00:54:36,776 "Did he ever do anything to you?" 851 00:54:36,860 --> 00:54:40,280 And I never turned around. I just said, "Mm-hmm." 852 00:54:40,905 --> 00:54:45,035 And she turned around and left the room. 853 00:54:45,076 --> 00:54:46,327 There wasn't even a hug. 854 00:54:46,411 --> 00:54:49,122 To this day, there's still 855 00:54:49,205 --> 00:54:51,624 not been a conversation about that. 856 00:54:51,708 --> 00:54:54,502 -That's super painful. -Yeah. 857 00:54:55,378 --> 00:54:56,504 Is that Grandpa? 858 00:54:56,588 --> 00:54:58,006 - That is Grandpa. - Wow. 859 00:54:58,089 --> 00:54:59,215 This date is in prison. 860 00:54:59,257 --> 00:55:01,217 That's '94. 861 00:55:01,259 --> 00:55:02,844 I don't know about this one. 862 00:55:02,927 --> 00:55:05,930 He did get out early. I think two and a half years 863 00:55:06,014 --> 00:55:07,599 -into the four-and-a-half-year sentence. -Oh. 864 00:55:07,682 --> 00:55:09,768 - He got off on good behavior. - Mm-hmm. 865 00:55:09,809 --> 00:55:11,853 The chaplain was like, "Oh, this is such 866 00:55:11,936 --> 00:55:14,064 a trustworthy man of God." 867 00:55:14,105 --> 00:55:17,275 And then, him and Grandma just 868 00:55:17,317 --> 00:55:19,402 bounced around Florida for 20 years. 869 00:55:19,611 --> 00:55:22,614 I just cannot even wrap my head around 870 00:55:22,655 --> 00:55:26,618 -what she dealt with every day. -Yeah. Yeah. 871 00:55:27,786 --> 00:55:29,537 There is a letter she sent to you 872 00:55:29,621 --> 00:55:31,831 as soon as Grandpa went to prison. 873 00:55:31,915 --> 00:55:34,876 It gets me every time. 874 00:55:35,835 --> 00:55:38,463 "Dear Angie, Thank you for your lovely letter and pictures. 875 00:55:38,505 --> 00:55:40,548 "After three weeks, it was possible for Grandpa 876 00:55:40,632 --> 00:55:42,842 "to receive his in prison. He likes it. 877 00:55:43,009 --> 00:55:46,596 "He calls prison the 'big fish,' just like Jonah. 878 00:55:46,638 --> 00:55:48,723 "He's in there because of his disobedience. 879 00:55:48,807 --> 00:55:50,642 "He is now crying out like Jonah 880 00:55:50,684 --> 00:55:52,852 "to be delivered from the belly of hell. 881 00:55:52,936 --> 00:55:56,648 "And he is asking us to forgive him, too. 882 00:55:59,317 --> 00:56:01,653 "As for me, I'm sorry, too. 883 00:56:01,695 --> 00:56:04,823 "Even though I've been aware of this addiction for a long time, 884 00:56:04,906 --> 00:56:08,535 "and promised God I would face it squarely 885 00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:11,246 "when it raised its ugly head, 886 00:56:11,329 --> 00:56:13,623 "I have failed miserably in that department. 887 00:56:13,665 --> 00:56:16,459 "I have found the ugly addiction never sleeps, 888 00:56:16,501 --> 00:56:18,128 "and I require sleep. 889 00:56:18,169 --> 00:56:19,421 "And it is very sneaky. 890 00:56:19,504 --> 00:56:22,757 "And there are many times I'm not smart enough. 891 00:56:23,174 --> 00:56:24,676 "Then both you and your mom write me 892 00:56:24,718 --> 00:56:26,678 "such beautiful letters and cards saying, 893 00:56:26,761 --> 00:56:29,806 "'We miss you. We love you. Please come home.' 894 00:56:29,848 --> 00:56:33,018 "And I think, 'Why?' I'm a big part of this failure. 895 00:56:34,436 --> 00:56:36,479 "Oh, Angie, please forgive me. 896 00:56:36,521 --> 00:56:39,399 I do love you, honey. Grandma." 897 00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:44,112 That's, that's really sad. 898 00:56:44,195 --> 00:56:46,865 -Do you remember this? -No. 899 00:56:48,283 --> 00:56:51,661 So, it is confirmation that she knew 900 00:56:51,703 --> 00:56:53,913 that I did go through that. 901 00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:20,982 My mom just constantly 902 00:57:21,066 --> 00:57:24,694 tried to smooth things over all the time in her mind. 903 00:57:25,403 --> 00:57:30,700 Just... wish things away or pray 'em away. 904 00:57:32,452 --> 00:57:35,163 I know that she couldn't have been happy, at all, 905 00:57:35,246 --> 00:57:37,040 living with my dad. 906 00:57:37,082 --> 00:57:40,126 But growing up religious, 907 00:57:40,210 --> 00:57:43,254 doesn't matter what kind of abuse you go through, 908 00:57:43,338 --> 00:57:44,756 divorce wasn't an option. 909 00:57:44,798 --> 00:57:48,176 And, especially, back then. You just-- You didn't do it. 910 00:57:48,259 --> 00:57:50,261 "Until death do us part." 911 00:57:53,181 --> 00:57:56,017 In 2012, I flew to Florida, 912 00:57:56,101 --> 00:57:58,603 and when I got there, 913 00:57:58,687 --> 00:58:02,148 she had lost between 30 and 40 pounds. 914 00:58:02,232 --> 00:58:06,778 And I just told her, I said, "I see what it's doing to you." 915 00:58:06,820 --> 00:58:10,615 And I said, "This is the last time I'm gonna ask you." 916 00:58:10,699 --> 00:58:13,993 I said, "Will you come back with me?" 917 00:58:14,077 --> 00:58:16,955 When she said, "Okay, I'll do it," 918 00:58:17,038 --> 00:58:20,125 I started planning in my mind, 919 00:58:20,166 --> 00:58:23,837 "How do I get her outta here without him killing us?" 920 00:58:27,674 --> 00:58:29,592 I am like, "Okay, Mom. 921 00:58:29,634 --> 00:58:31,219 "We are gonna get far enough away 922 00:58:31,302 --> 00:58:32,804 "that he's not gonna find us. 923 00:58:32,846 --> 00:58:35,807 I'm gonna get everything packed in the car." 924 00:58:38,601 --> 00:58:41,271 We were about a half an hour away, 925 00:58:41,312 --> 00:58:43,565 and my dad called. 926 00:58:43,648 --> 00:58:47,652 She, she looked at it, and she goes, "It's him." 927 00:58:49,154 --> 00:58:54,200 I could hear him yelling, and he said, "Where are you?! 928 00:58:54,284 --> 00:58:56,828 You are the worst daughter!" 929 00:58:56,870 --> 00:59:01,958 How could I possibly steal her away from him? 930 00:59:02,625 --> 00:59:06,796 I just thought, "We gotta get as far away from here as we can." 931 00:59:09,299 --> 00:59:14,637 It was an 18-hour drive back to Pennsylvania. 932 00:59:14,929 --> 00:59:18,266 It was the beginning of the rest of her life. 933 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,032 I finally got her hooked up with my doctor. 934 00:59:34,115 --> 00:59:37,535 She was diagnosed with colon cancer. 935 00:59:38,328 --> 00:59:42,290 She ended up living a little over two more years. 936 00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:47,921 It was very sad. I feel like she was such 937 00:59:48,004 --> 00:59:50,757 a smart, intelligent, beautiful woman 938 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,967 that had wasted her time 939 00:59:53,051 --> 00:59:57,389 on someone that has destroyed so many people's lives. 940 01:00:19,411 --> 01:00:20,745 Hey, Bonnie. 941 01:00:20,787 --> 01:00:22,414 Hi, Amanda. 942 01:00:24,124 --> 01:00:26,793 You had mentioned you're back in Harrisburg, 943 01:00:26,876 --> 01:00:29,254 and then I thought the only eyes that 944 01:00:29,295 --> 01:00:33,049 I've ever seen Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, through 945 01:00:33,091 --> 01:00:36,261 are with my 3-to-6-year-old eyes. 946 01:00:36,302 --> 01:00:39,806 I want to go to Herd Chiropractic Clinic, 947 01:00:39,889 --> 01:00:43,309 and I just wanna be heard and understood. 948 01:00:44,060 --> 01:00:48,023 And I want to stand in that driveway as an adult, 949 01:00:48,106 --> 01:00:50,567 and know that nobody can drag me in there. 950 01:00:50,608 --> 01:00:54,654 And that way, it'll be permanently imprinted in my brain 951 01:00:54,738 --> 01:00:56,781 that I'm safe now. 952 01:00:56,823 --> 01:00:59,284 I am 100% here for that. 953 01:00:59,367 --> 01:01:01,119 Absolutely. 954 01:01:18,053 --> 01:01:22,307 - How you feelin'? - I'm feeling nervous. 955 01:01:22,349 --> 01:01:24,601 It's so strange being back here. 956 01:01:24,642 --> 01:01:26,603 I've avoided it for so long. 957 01:01:27,437 --> 01:01:31,524 -Like, deliberately avoided coming back here. -You're doin' it. Mm-hmm. 958 01:01:31,608 --> 01:01:33,151 It's this white building right here. 959 01:01:33,234 --> 01:01:34,402 - Here on the corner? - Yep. 960 01:01:34,486 --> 01:01:35,612 Okay. 961 01:01:44,537 --> 01:01:46,206 I need to breathe. 962 01:02:23,618 --> 01:02:25,870 Oh, my goodness. 963 01:02:52,188 --> 01:02:54,190 This is different. 964 01:03:07,412 --> 01:03:09,873 Just being in this building 965 01:03:11,916 --> 01:03:14,878 makes me feel sick to my stomach. 966 01:03:18,006 --> 01:03:19,966 I need to breathe. 967 01:03:20,467 --> 01:03:22,260 Oh, my God. 968 01:03:31,436 --> 01:03:33,813 Come on in here, kids. Have a seat, okay? Thanks so much. 969 01:03:33,897 --> 01:03:35,565 - Yeah. - Thanks so much. 970 01:03:35,607 --> 01:03:38,193 We got a lotta flack down here, uh, 971 01:03:38,276 --> 01:03:42,614 from people that Bill had, uh, relationships with. 972 01:03:43,114 --> 01:03:47,952 Between Bill and Lois's house and here, 973 01:03:47,994 --> 01:03:52,040 those were the two places he would abuse me. 974 01:03:52,123 --> 01:03:56,378 And it-it's taken me a little over 40 years now 975 01:03:56,461 --> 01:04:00,340 to come back to these places and face them as an adult. 976 01:04:00,423 --> 01:04:02,133 The Bible says that 977 01:04:02,175 --> 01:04:05,929 we're forgiven to the same degree we forgive. 978 01:04:07,347 --> 01:04:09,933 It's God's love that c-- allows us to forgive 979 01:04:09,974 --> 01:04:13,395 and h-helps us to forgive those that have abused us. 980 01:04:13,478 --> 01:04:16,106 I think that's what I struggle with is thinking that 981 01:04:16,147 --> 01:04:17,982 if I'm going to forgive someone 982 01:04:18,066 --> 01:04:20,068 that, no, I'm not going to forget, 983 01:04:20,151 --> 01:04:23,905 and, no, I'm not going to just immediately let it go. 984 01:04:23,988 --> 01:04:25,990 It's, it's hard to forgive someone who 985 01:04:26,074 --> 01:04:27,659 doesn't ask for forgiveness, 986 01:04:27,742 --> 01:04:31,538 or... think that they did anything wrong. 987 01:04:31,621 --> 01:04:33,039 You know? 988 01:04:36,001 --> 01:04:38,044 Yeah, you're never gonna forget it. 989 01:04:38,128 --> 01:04:40,880 I mean, that's-- I mean, that's, th-that's life. 990 01:04:40,964 --> 01:04:43,216 We understand that, yeah. 991 01:04:45,427 --> 01:04:47,679 And, and we wanna pray with you before we leave 992 01:04:47,721 --> 01:04:49,848 - just for-- Yes. - Yeah? 993 01:04:49,889 --> 01:04:53,435 - Absolutely. - Okay. 994 01:04:53,518 --> 01:04:55,478 Pray, Barb, you pray for 'em, honey. Pray. 995 01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,355 Lord, we come into your presence of praise 996 01:04:57,439 --> 01:04:59,774 and into accordance with thanksgiving. 997 01:04:59,858 --> 01:05:01,943 Knowing that you're the Lord, our God, 998 01:05:02,027 --> 01:05:03,778 and you do all things well. 999 01:05:03,862 --> 01:05:06,656 You heal our mind, you heal our body, you heal our spirit. 1000 01:05:06,698 --> 01:05:08,950 -Yes, you're the healer, Lord. Yes. -I ask Lord Jesus 1001 01:05:09,034 --> 01:05:10,577 that you will take my sister, 1002 01:05:10,660 --> 01:05:12,328 - and you'll pour your love... - Yes, Lord Jesus. 1003 01:05:12,370 --> 01:05:14,664 - ...and your love, love, love... - Yes, yes, Jesus, yes. 1004 01:05:14,706 --> 01:05:17,709 - ...into her mind, body, and spirit. - Yes. 1005 01:05:17,792 --> 01:05:20,837 -Yes, Lord. -Let there be a release, 1006 01:05:20,879 --> 01:05:22,547 and a power of forgiveness 1007 01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:26,009 that will set her free totally in her whole being. 1008 01:05:26,051 --> 01:05:28,595 - While we bless your name, Lord, we know you're the God... - We bless you. 1009 01:05:28,678 --> 01:05:30,430 -Thank you. You are the healer, Lord. -...of the now... 1010 01:05:30,513 --> 01:05:32,307 - Yep. - ...and the God of our future, 1011 01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:34,934 and you take care of us, and we bless your name. 1012 01:05:35,018 --> 01:05:36,144 Thank you for your healing, Lord, 1013 01:05:36,227 --> 01:05:38,229 for your healing power in our sister. 1014 01:05:38,271 --> 01:05:40,065 Just fill her heart, fill her spirit, Lord, 1015 01:05:40,106 --> 01:05:42,233 we pray in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. 1016 01:05:42,275 --> 01:05:45,153 Filling you with love, forgiveness, 1017 01:05:45,236 --> 01:05:47,530 and healing in Jesus's mighty name. 1018 01:05:47,572 --> 01:05:49,032 Amen. 1019 01:05:57,874 --> 01:06:00,460 - How ya feelin'? - Sick. 1020 01:06:15,684 --> 01:06:16,935 Yeah. 1021 01:06:17,143 --> 01:06:18,978 Do you want a hug or you want some space? 1022 01:06:19,062 --> 01:06:21,648 - Space. - Okay, that's fine. 1023 01:06:49,134 --> 01:06:52,637 Do you feel like God has forgiven you? 1024 01:06:52,679 --> 01:06:57,434 Absolutely, because there's no sin that can't be forgiven. 1025 01:06:57,475 --> 01:07:00,228 Except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. 1026 01:07:02,355 --> 01:07:05,233 You can be forgiven no matter what you've done. 1027 01:07:23,668 --> 01:07:25,670 Hi, Debi. 1028 01:07:25,754 --> 01:07:28,006 I'm tryin' to reach ya, honey. 1029 01:07:28,048 --> 01:07:30,383 Daddy loves his daughter. 1030 01:07:30,675 --> 01:07:32,635 You're so precious. 1031 01:07:35,096 --> 01:07:40,560 Um, so, everything has gotten so screwed up down here. 1032 01:07:41,019 --> 01:07:43,813 I'm not doin' too good right now, and... 1033 01:07:44,147 --> 01:07:47,650 I'll just explain it to you when I get a chance. 1034 01:07:48,193 --> 01:07:51,196 I'm, I'm waitin' for ya. Thank you. 1035 01:07:52,864 --> 01:07:56,368 Hey, Deb, I've been missin' you, honey, 1036 01:07:56,409 --> 01:07:59,204 and you don't seem to pick up anymore. 1037 01:07:59,287 --> 01:08:01,539 I guess you don't like me anymore. 1038 01:08:03,792 --> 01:08:06,127 Tomorrow, of course, as you know, I have dialysis, 1039 01:08:06,211 --> 01:08:10,340 and... now I have to have a fistula put in my arm. 1040 01:08:10,382 --> 01:08:14,010 I have a catheter in my shoulder right now. 1041 01:08:14,928 --> 01:08:18,556 So at any rate, I just want you to keep me in prayer, 1042 01:08:18,598 --> 01:08:21,893 but ya know what's goin' on with your old Pappy. 1043 01:08:23,895 --> 01:08:27,315 Hey, Mom. 1044 01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:28,983 Hi, honey. 1045 01:08:29,067 --> 01:08:30,777 Okay, so you were saying-- 1046 01:08:30,860 --> 01:08:34,781 He definitely has declined a lot. 1047 01:08:34,864 --> 01:08:38,493 He just sounded very confused, very weak, so. 1048 01:08:38,576 --> 01:08:42,330 How do you feel knowin' he's fallin' apart? 1049 01:08:42,664 --> 01:08:45,458 I don't know. I, I guess, 1050 01:08:45,542 --> 01:08:48,378 you know, even though he's a horrible, awful person, 1051 01:08:48,420 --> 01:08:50,338 I still know him as my dad. 1052 01:08:50,422 --> 01:08:53,341 As messed up as he was. You know? 1053 01:08:54,009 --> 01:08:56,720 All I get is this darn voicemail thing. 1054 01:08:56,761 --> 01:08:57,804 I hate that thing. 1055 01:08:57,887 --> 01:09:00,098 Are you in a position where you can call me? 1056 01:09:00,181 --> 01:09:01,766 Very important. 1057 01:09:01,933 --> 01:09:04,394 I don't understand this. 1058 01:09:04,436 --> 01:09:06,938 Why are you avoiding me? 1059 01:09:07,147 --> 01:09:11,609 I'm not your enemy, I'm your dad. 1060 01:09:11,901 --> 01:09:13,653 I'd just as soon be dead. 1061 01:09:13,737 --> 01:09:15,071 That'd be the best thing in the world 1062 01:09:15,113 --> 01:09:16,448 if it happened to me. 1063 01:09:16,489 --> 01:09:17,949 Maybe you'd agree with that, too. 1064 01:09:17,991 --> 01:09:19,826 I don't know. 1065 01:09:19,909 --> 01:09:21,286 And I love ya. 1066 01:09:21,578 --> 01:09:24,831 Give me a call back tonight, please. 1067 01:09:26,916 --> 01:09:30,337 Uh, it's, it's been three days of hell, that's all I can say. 1068 01:09:30,420 --> 01:09:34,883 Constant phone calls and texts, and harassment, and oh, my gosh. 1069 01:09:34,966 --> 01:09:37,927 He needs somebody to manage 1070 01:09:37,969 --> 01:09:40,305 -him right now. -Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1071 01:09:42,015 --> 01:09:44,351 He's saying he's frantically moving, 1072 01:09:44,434 --> 01:09:46,269 and, "I'm just too old to do this." 1073 01:09:46,311 --> 01:09:48,730 And I could just tell he wasn't telling me anything 1074 01:09:48,813 --> 01:09:52,025 and, and I said, "Okay, Dad, what's goin' on?" 1075 01:09:52,442 --> 01:09:53,985 He says, "Well"-- 1076 01:09:54,069 --> 01:09:57,405 He goes, "Remember those young twins that I was talkin' about?" 1077 01:09:57,489 --> 01:09:59,157 - Oh, no. - Yeah. 1078 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:04,162 He said, you know, "They aren't feeling comfortable that I'm here." 1079 01:10:04,204 --> 01:10:06,623 And I knew he wasn't lyin' to me. 1080 01:10:06,664 --> 01:10:08,875 So, I called the manager of the place, 1081 01:10:08,958 --> 01:10:11,419 and he told me that, "Your father has been 1082 01:10:11,503 --> 01:10:13,380 touching them inappropriately," 1083 01:10:13,463 --> 01:10:16,508 but, again, nobody wants to press charges. 1084 01:10:16,591 --> 01:10:18,843 They just want him to move. 1085 01:10:18,927 --> 01:10:20,679 That exact reason is why 1086 01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,182 he's gotten away with this for his entire life. 1087 01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:46,037 We're gonna go down 1088 01:10:46,121 --> 01:10:47,622 and see Grandpa for the last time. 1089 01:10:47,706 --> 01:10:51,710 He is not doing-- Very poor in his health, um, 1090 01:10:51,751 --> 01:10:53,044 in his final days. 1091 01:10:53,086 --> 01:10:56,589 I just picked up a letter from my sister that she wrote him. 1092 01:10:56,756 --> 01:11:00,051 So, if there's anything you wanted me to say to him. 1093 01:11:00,135 --> 01:11:02,846 I would love for you to tell him 1094 01:11:02,887 --> 01:11:05,557 that his sick perversion, 1095 01:11:05,598 --> 01:11:07,892 to get off for a few minutes, 1096 01:11:07,976 --> 01:11:11,521 took the spirit and the life out of a 4-year-old girl. 1097 01:11:11,604 --> 01:11:12,564 Hm. 1098 01:11:41,718 --> 01:11:43,386 - Alright, I'd slow down. - Yeah. 1099 01:11:43,428 --> 01:11:45,430 Alright, it's here, yeah? 1100 01:11:47,766 --> 01:11:49,017 Okay. 1101 01:12:12,874 --> 01:12:15,377 How much longer is it before dinner? 1102 01:12:15,460 --> 01:12:16,920 One more hour. 1103 01:12:16,961 --> 01:12:19,339 Yes. 1104 01:12:19,422 --> 01:12:22,842 - Hello! - Hi, honey, it's me. 1105 01:12:23,593 --> 01:12:26,846 Can you hang up the phone? It's something important. 1106 01:12:38,483 --> 01:12:40,151 Hi, Dad. 1107 01:12:40,235 --> 01:12:43,863 I don't believe it. 1108 01:12:43,947 --> 01:12:47,784 Hello there, sweet-- Hi, girls, how are ya? 1109 01:12:47,826 --> 01:12:50,286 - How are you, Dad? - Oh, I'm very good. 1110 01:12:50,328 --> 01:12:52,330 I've got a lotta pain in my side today, 1111 01:12:52,372 --> 01:12:53,832 - but otherwise I'm okay. - Sorry. 1112 01:12:53,915 --> 01:12:57,502 - Hi, Grandpa. Hi. Hi. Hi, sweetheart. Oh, my gosh. 1113 01:12:57,544 --> 01:12:59,004 Are you alright? 1114 01:12:59,045 --> 01:13:01,339 I'm okay. Thanks, honey. 1115 01:13:01,506 --> 01:13:04,801 Appreciate you, baby. 1116 01:13:08,805 --> 01:13:10,640 We didn't mean to shock ya too much. 1117 01:13:10,682 --> 01:13:12,475 No, it's wonderful. Thank you. 1118 01:13:12,517 --> 01:13:14,686 Wasn't sure if you'd remember who I was. 1119 01:13:14,728 --> 01:13:16,563 Of course! 1120 01:13:16,646 --> 01:13:20,233 How could I ever forget you or her? Either one. 1121 01:13:20,775 --> 01:13:22,569 - But. - So, but tomorrow, 1122 01:13:22,652 --> 01:13:24,362 we can call it a hang-out day, 1123 01:13:24,404 --> 01:13:27,198 - if you have the energy. - Sounds good. 1124 01:13:32,579 --> 01:13:35,415 Okay. 1125 01:13:35,498 --> 01:13:38,001 - Oh-- - What do you think of the place? 1126 01:13:38,043 --> 01:13:39,169 It is really bad. 1127 01:13:39,210 --> 01:13:44,424 He's not lying when he said it was a dump. 1128 01:13:44,507 --> 01:13:47,093 But, ya know what, it's this or prison. 1129 01:13:47,177 --> 01:13:49,095 -Yeah. -Pick your worst. 1130 01:13:49,179 --> 01:13:52,140 - You know? - I'd prefer prison for him. 1131 01:14:06,404 --> 01:14:08,573 You almost ready, Manny? 1132 01:14:08,615 --> 01:14:10,075 Yeah. 1133 01:14:30,345 --> 01:14:32,722 It's crazy thinkin'... 1134 01:14:32,764 --> 01:14:35,475 how long I've thought about doing this, 1135 01:14:35,558 --> 01:14:38,436 and it's just weird 'cause it's, like, today's that day. 1136 01:14:38,728 --> 01:14:41,564 -Today is, is the day ya say somethin'. -Yeah. 1137 01:14:57,706 --> 01:14:59,958 I'm nervous but I feel... 1138 01:15:02,085 --> 01:15:03,503 ready. 1139 01:15:04,796 --> 01:15:07,757 Just plow through the discomfort here. 1140 01:15:19,978 --> 01:15:22,522 So this is all that they said that you have left. 1141 01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:24,524 Oh, my God, that's a lie. 1142 01:15:24,607 --> 01:15:26,276 So there's some pictures here. 1143 01:15:26,317 --> 01:15:27,986 So we have pictures of Grandma, 1144 01:15:28,028 --> 01:15:32,741 -and Ange, your kids. -Yep, yep, yep. Yep. 1145 01:15:32,824 --> 01:15:35,326 Who's that? 1146 01:15:35,368 --> 01:15:37,328 You know, I don't know who that is. 1147 01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:40,957 -I'm not sure. -Oh, I see, Dad, I see your diabetes. 1148 01:15:40,999 --> 01:15:43,501 - Mm-hmm. Look at this. - Look at this. 1149 01:15:43,543 --> 01:15:46,338 Peanut butter MandM's, cookies. 1150 01:15:46,421 --> 01:15:47,881 Yeah, I have to carry snacks 1151 01:15:47,964 --> 01:15:51,468 because we don't get enough to eat in this place. 1152 01:15:51,509 --> 01:15:54,054 Alright, Dad, this is gonna be on your top shelf. 1153 01:15:54,137 --> 01:15:55,889 You, you really don't. 1154 01:15:56,681 --> 01:15:58,641 - Okay. - Alright. 1155 01:15:58,683 --> 01:15:59,934 Alright. Ya good? 1156 01:16:00,018 --> 01:16:01,770 - You can stay there. - No, stay. Sit down, Dad. 1157 01:16:01,853 --> 01:16:02,812 No, I-- No, no, no, no, no, no. 1158 01:16:02,854 --> 01:16:04,022 That's not what I'm after right now. 1159 01:16:04,064 --> 01:16:05,357 - What do you need? - Okay. 1160 01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:06,608 My telephone over there. 1161 01:16:06,691 --> 01:16:08,360 Oh, we see it's charged, charged. 1162 01:16:08,401 --> 01:16:09,819 Yeah, just pull the cord. 1163 01:16:10,195 --> 01:16:15,283 But I gotta have-- must have a picture of that lady, too. 1164 01:16:15,367 --> 01:16:17,410 Uh, I'll stay on this side 1165 01:16:17,494 --> 01:16:19,204 of the camera. 1166 01:16:19,287 --> 01:16:22,707 It isn't every day that we get a movie star in here. 1167 01:16:22,791 --> 01:16:23,708 Oh. 1168 01:16:23,792 --> 01:16:25,543 I'm so glad to meet you. 1169 01:16:25,627 --> 01:16:27,712 And so glad you came. 1170 01:16:28,046 --> 01:16:31,925 Alright. Now, do you mind if we take some pictures outside? 1171 01:16:32,008 --> 01:16:33,301 -No. -Okay. 1172 01:16:33,385 --> 01:16:34,844 Oh, my goodness. 1173 01:16:34,886 --> 01:16:36,554 I just have to go-- kinda go slow. 1174 01:16:36,638 --> 01:16:39,224 Well, go slow, Dad. That's fine. 1175 01:16:39,891 --> 01:16:41,059 Where are we lookin'? 1176 01:16:41,101 --> 01:16:43,228 Just towards me. 1177 01:16:43,269 --> 01:16:44,729 - One, two... - What? 1178 01:16:44,813 --> 01:16:47,065 - ...three. - Never mind. 1179 01:16:49,067 --> 01:16:52,779 One, two, three. 1180 01:16:52,862 --> 01:16:55,198 I can't believe he said I look like your mother. 1181 01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:58,743 - No, ya look great, honey. - Uh-huh. 1182 01:16:58,785 --> 01:17:01,663 -You really do. I'm serious. -Yeah, whatever. 1183 01:17:01,746 --> 01:17:03,581 You do look great right now, Mom. 1184 01:17:03,623 --> 01:17:05,875 You do, honey. You're, you're terrific. 1185 01:17:05,917 --> 01:17:07,252 If you only knew what I've been through. 1186 01:17:07,293 --> 01:17:09,254 Alright, will ya look up at her for a second? 1187 01:17:09,337 --> 01:17:12,257 So what have you been through? 1188 01:17:12,298 --> 01:17:14,968 - Up at her. Whoop. - Can ya get that far? 1189 01:17:15,051 --> 01:17:16,845 I think can. 1190 01:17:17,554 --> 01:17:19,681 Alright, great. 1191 01:17:19,764 --> 01:17:21,474 Now what time is, uh, dinner? 1192 01:17:21,558 --> 01:17:26,062 -Five, right? -At five o'clock if-- I don't know. I-- 1193 01:17:26,104 --> 01:17:28,356 -Okay. -A lotta times, I don't even try to eat. 1194 01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:32,027 -I know, but you need to, Dad, if you can. -Thank you, Mama. 1195 01:17:32,110 --> 01:17:34,529 Stop calling me your mother. 1196 01:17:34,612 --> 01:17:36,489 - Okay. - I knew that'd get to her. 1197 01:17:36,573 --> 01:17:39,034 - Good God. - Now, there's, um, 1198 01:17:39,117 --> 01:17:40,869 there's somethin' I just wanna ask you real quick. 1199 01:17:40,952 --> 01:17:43,455 Do you wanna, do you wanna say bye? 1200 01:17:43,538 --> 01:17:45,498 - Okay. Yeah. - Okay. 1201 01:17:45,582 --> 01:17:46,708 I'm gonna-- She just-- 1202 01:17:46,791 --> 01:17:47,792 I'm gonna go to the car. 1203 01:17:47,876 --> 01:17:48,835 It was very nice to meet you. 1204 01:17:48,918 --> 01:17:50,045 Oh, it's a pleasure. 1205 01:17:50,128 --> 01:17:52,297 You're absolutely gorgeous, by the way. 1206 01:17:52,339 --> 01:17:54,924 - Thank you. - So, I thank you. 1207 01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:57,635 I'm blessed to have you down here. 1208 01:17:57,719 --> 01:17:59,429 - Bye. - Where ya goin'? 1209 01:17:59,471 --> 01:18:01,056 She's goin' to the car. 1210 01:18:01,139 --> 01:18:02,891 - We have to talk to you about somethin'. - No! Come on back here. 1211 01:18:02,974 --> 01:18:04,100 No, Dad, it's alright, it's alright. 1212 01:18:04,142 --> 01:18:05,518 She's gotta get her stuff ready to go. 1213 01:18:05,602 --> 01:18:08,229 I just wanted to get a picture of her, though. 1214 01:18:09,647 --> 01:18:10,982 Now, 1215 01:18:11,066 --> 01:18:12,692 I'm gonna put this down. I just wanted us 1216 01:18:12,776 --> 01:18:13,985 -to be able to... -Here, I'll hold it, hon. 1217 01:18:14,069 --> 01:18:15,111 -I'll hold it. -...to have a minute. 1218 01:18:15,153 --> 01:18:18,073 Um, oh, I'm gettin' a picture taken. 1219 01:18:18,156 --> 01:18:22,118 - Good deal. - Alright, so I just wanted to-- 1220 01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,789 - Oh, God, I'm gonna cry. - Don't cry. 1221 01:18:36,091 --> 01:18:38,134 Grandpa, I just need you to listen to me for a second. 1222 01:18:38,176 --> 01:18:40,512 -I'm listening. -There are two people 1223 01:18:40,595 --> 01:18:43,056 that... sent me-- 1224 01:18:43,139 --> 01:18:45,475 - Can you do this? - I'm sorry. 1225 01:18:45,517 --> 01:18:48,186 There is... two people that, 1226 01:18:48,269 --> 01:18:50,939 you know, we always want wholeness between people, 1227 01:18:51,022 --> 01:18:54,734 and they asked us to send you some mess-- a message, 1228 01:18:54,818 --> 01:18:57,570 and we want you to hear it, okay? 1229 01:18:58,029 --> 01:19:01,324 Um... because we want everybody to be whole 1230 01:19:01,366 --> 01:19:04,327 in this dysfunctional stuff that we go through. 1231 01:19:04,369 --> 01:19:07,247 So, we just want ya to listen to this, okay? 1232 01:19:07,330 --> 01:19:09,207 -I'm all ears. -Okay. 1233 01:19:09,290 --> 01:19:13,044 So, the first one... is from Ange. 1234 01:19:13,336 --> 01:19:16,131 She sent you an audio message to listen to. 1235 01:19:16,715 --> 01:19:18,133 Okay. 1236 01:19:18,299 --> 01:19:19,676 I hope you can hear it. 1237 01:19:19,884 --> 01:19:22,053 Grandpa, I wanna start off by telling you 1238 01:19:22,095 --> 01:19:23,763 that I love you dearly and I'm thankful 1239 01:19:23,847 --> 01:19:25,807 to have you as my grandpa. 1240 01:19:25,890 --> 01:19:27,892 I suffered many years of my life 1241 01:19:27,976 --> 01:19:30,020 by the trauma I endured as a child 1242 01:19:30,061 --> 01:19:32,397 moving into your home with my mom 1243 01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:34,899 where I was subjected to sexual abuse 1244 01:19:34,941 --> 01:19:36,776 for many years at your hand. 1245 01:19:36,860 --> 01:19:39,362 I've learned to push everything under the carpet, 1246 01:19:39,404 --> 01:19:41,072 just like the family did. 1247 01:19:41,114 --> 01:19:44,367 I do not want to hold anger and bitterness in my heart, 1248 01:19:44,409 --> 01:19:48,079 and I pray you get your life right with God before it's too late. 1249 01:19:48,121 --> 01:19:50,582 Love, your granddaughter, Angie. 1250 01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:54,419 Can you stand here? 1251 01:19:55,754 --> 01:19:57,047 Thank you. 1252 01:19:57,088 --> 01:20:00,383 -What are your thoughts on that, Dad? -Well. 1253 01:20:07,932 --> 01:20:10,518 Do you wanna say anything in response to Ange? 1254 01:20:10,602 --> 01:20:12,103 I can send her back a message. 1255 01:20:12,145 --> 01:20:13,938 Yeah, 'cause we wanted to s-- you to, 1256 01:20:13,980 --> 01:20:15,732 ya know, send messages to people 1257 01:20:15,774 --> 01:20:17,609 like we're sending a message to you, 1258 01:20:17,692 --> 01:20:19,944 so what would you-- 1259 01:20:20,028 --> 01:20:22,989 Do you wanna say something to her? 1260 01:20:25,325 --> 01:20:26,951 Okay. 1261 01:20:29,496 --> 01:20:32,374 Hello, Angie. This is Grandpa. 1262 01:20:32,665 --> 01:20:37,629 Hey, um, that, that was quite a message you sent me, 1263 01:20:37,712 --> 01:20:40,090 and I appreciate it, and I thank you, 1264 01:20:40,131 --> 01:20:44,135 and I, uh, am deeply sorry for all the different things 1265 01:20:44,177 --> 01:20:47,639 that happened in my life, in your life, 1266 01:20:47,722 --> 01:20:50,642 and, and, and, and your mom, 1267 01:20:50,725 --> 01:20:53,478 and, uh, it was not done purposely, 1268 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,607 but yet, these things do happen sometimes. 1269 01:20:57,649 --> 01:21:00,235 Sometimes, we do stupid things, 1270 01:21:00,318 --> 01:21:05,699 and I, I have to admit that I was many times very stupid. 1271 01:21:05,782 --> 01:21:08,743 So, thank you for leveling with me. 1272 01:21:08,827 --> 01:21:10,829 It's wonderful. God bless you, honey, 1273 01:21:10,912 --> 01:21:14,916 and I believe we're gonna walk the streets of glory together one day. 1274 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,669 Okay, um, 1275 01:21:17,711 --> 01:21:22,882 I-I, I do have, I have one more. Sorry. 1276 01:21:23,508 --> 01:21:26,678 Now this is from a woman named Bonnie Dillard. 1277 01:21:36,104 --> 01:21:37,647 Can I at least-- You don't have to say anything, 1278 01:21:37,689 --> 01:21:38,857 but it's important. 1279 01:21:38,898 --> 01:21:40,900 She asked-- She reached out to our family. 1280 01:21:40,984 --> 01:21:42,360 Well, how 'bout if you walk away 1281 01:21:42,402 --> 01:21:44,237 -and I'll let him listen to-- Okay? -I can walk away. 1282 01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,072 Would you like me to walk away? 1283 01:21:46,156 --> 01:21:50,910 I'll, I'll let you just hear it. You and I. Okay? 1284 01:21:50,994 --> 01:21:55,123 Alright, it's just for healing for them, Dad. Okay? 1285 01:21:56,374 --> 01:21:57,584 Alright. 1286 01:21:58,793 --> 01:22:01,046 Alright. 1287 01:22:01,171 --> 01:22:02,547 Alright. 1288 01:22:04,591 --> 01:22:07,761 He, he, he did what he did to get off 1289 01:22:07,844 --> 01:22:10,055 for a few minutes... 1290 01:22:10,138 --> 01:22:12,390 but what I don't think he knows 1291 01:22:12,432 --> 01:22:16,853 is that he took... the life, 1292 01:22:16,895 --> 01:22:19,647 the spirit of this little girl 1293 01:22:19,731 --> 01:22:22,859 that affected that little girl for the rest of her life. 1294 01:22:22,901 --> 01:22:26,071 And he didn't have the right to take that. 1295 01:22:27,781 --> 01:22:33,495 It wasn't his to take. It was, it was soul-crushing. 1296 01:22:40,502 --> 01:22:44,297 So, I don't know. Do you wanna say anything to her? 1297 01:22:45,465 --> 01:22:47,133 Okay. Alright. 1298 01:22:47,217 --> 01:22:49,844 Is there anybody else you wanna send a message to? 1299 01:22:49,928 --> 01:22:52,263 , Paul, anybody? 1300 01:22:52,305 --> 01:22:53,598 Nobody? 1301 01:22:53,682 --> 01:22:54,557 - Not really. - Okay. 1302 01:22:54,599 --> 01:22:56,518 She'll get your walker and I'll take you. 1303 01:22:56,601 --> 01:22:58,645 Yeah, I'll be right back. 1304 01:23:09,948 --> 01:23:11,241 Get him there, and I'll be right back. 1305 01:23:11,282 --> 01:23:13,868 Okay. Alright, Grandpa, I'm gonna give ya a hug. 1306 01:23:13,952 --> 01:23:15,954 Oh, you still want to? 1307 01:23:16,037 --> 01:23:18,081 - Yep. - Thank you. 1308 01:23:18,123 --> 01:23:19,958 Dad, do you need-- have your wallet, 1309 01:23:20,041 --> 01:23:21,918 all of that with you? I know you-- 1310 01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:23,962 - Yes, I do. - Okay. Alright. 1311 01:23:24,004 --> 01:23:25,130 - Let's go. - Alright. 1312 01:23:25,213 --> 01:23:26,548 Alright. I'll be right back to the car. 1313 01:23:26,589 --> 01:23:28,049 Okay, I'll see ya. 1314 01:23:39,644 --> 01:23:43,314 I still have to answer to an almighty God. 1315 01:23:44,107 --> 01:23:47,152 And I have to stand before him one day, 1316 01:23:47,819 --> 01:23:51,031 and I'm not gonna be able to lie to him whatsoever 1317 01:23:51,114 --> 01:23:53,366 because he knows everything. 1318 01:24:05,253 --> 01:24:08,214 I did not expect that to be so hard. 1319 01:24:10,008 --> 01:24:11,968 Oh, God. 1320 01:24:24,647 --> 01:24:29,778 Mr. William, open your beautiful eyes. 1321 01:24:31,196 --> 01:24:33,531 And no matter what we've done in the past 1322 01:24:33,573 --> 01:24:35,450 as we come to Him and we repent 1323 01:24:35,533 --> 01:24:37,744 asking Him for that forgiveness, 1324 01:24:37,827 --> 01:24:39,954 Christ will forgive. 1325 01:24:40,038 --> 01:24:42,957 No matter how awful we have been. 1326 01:24:43,667 --> 01:24:48,129 And we're bound for Heaven then, definitely. 1327 01:25:11,236 --> 01:25:13,571 Yeah, let's do the small one first. 1328 01:25:13,655 --> 01:25:15,907 Let me put this over here. 1329 01:25:16,074 --> 01:25:18,201 This is all that's left of Grandpa. 1330 01:25:18,243 --> 01:25:19,452 Scissors. 1331 01:25:22,122 --> 01:25:24,082 Okay, let's do this. 1332 01:25:24,165 --> 01:25:27,252 -Alright. -World's worst unboxing video. 1333 01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:36,886 Oh, wow. 1334 01:25:37,721 --> 01:25:38,763 Hm. 1335 01:25:43,351 --> 01:25:45,478 - Little picture of Grandma. - That's shocking. 1336 01:25:45,562 --> 01:25:47,230 Oh, my God, this is so creepy. 1337 01:25:47,272 --> 01:25:48,273 Well, who is it? 1338 01:25:48,314 --> 01:25:49,899 Just an empty wallet 1339 01:25:49,941 --> 01:25:53,695 and... pictures of this woman. 1340 01:25:54,863 --> 01:25:56,239 This is weird. 1341 01:25:56,281 --> 01:25:58,450 It is very weird. 1342 01:26:00,035 --> 01:26:02,495 What do you do with these things? 1343 01:26:02,787 --> 01:26:05,915 We have to be careful, we don't-- Oh, my gosh. Gross. 1344 01:26:05,957 --> 01:26:08,877 Is this one of his matching outfits? 1345 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,296 - Hello. - Hello, yellow. 1346 01:26:11,379 --> 01:26:13,631 Hello. 1347 01:26:17,469 --> 01:26:22,307 Oh, here's a brand-new coat. Never wore. Is it his or...? 1348 01:26:25,310 --> 01:26:28,355 - It is nice. - I told you! 1349 01:26:28,438 --> 01:26:30,273 -Oh no! -I can so see you-- 1350 01:26:30,315 --> 01:26:32,150 Oh, conflicted. 1351 01:26:32,233 --> 01:26:36,488 How cozy is that when you go to New York? 1352 01:26:36,529 --> 01:26:38,156 -Conflicted. -Conflicted. 1353 01:26:38,198 --> 01:26:39,366 Conflicted. 1354 01:26:39,657 --> 01:26:42,452 Let's just put this one to the side. 1355 01:26:50,502 --> 01:26:53,963 I can't. 1356 01:26:55,090 --> 01:26:57,342 I'm sorry. 1357 01:26:59,386 --> 01:27:03,807 We need some laughter in all this hideousness. 1358 01:27:04,015 --> 01:27:08,687 -You just sitting amongst-- -I know, smelly clothes. 1359 01:27:10,689 --> 01:27:14,526 I don't know. Like, is there something wrong with us? 1360 01:27:15,694 --> 01:27:17,278 That we laugh? 1361 01:27:18,655 --> 01:27:23,159 Hm, that's an interesting question. 1362 01:27:23,201 --> 01:27:26,496 I don't know. 1363 01:27:26,538 --> 01:27:28,123 It's not a nervous laugh, 1364 01:27:28,206 --> 01:27:33,128 I think it's more of a... a relief kinda. 1365 01:27:33,420 --> 01:27:35,547 And it's just kinda strange. 1366 01:27:35,630 --> 01:27:38,133 After all we've been through all those years with him, 1367 01:27:38,216 --> 01:27:40,343 and... this is it. 1368 01:27:40,385 --> 01:27:43,388 You know, it's freeing, 1369 01:27:43,471 --> 01:27:47,642 but it's also just very strange, so. 1370 01:27:47,726 --> 01:27:50,687 Mm-mm. 1371 01:27:54,232 --> 01:27:57,235 Well, you certainly know that he had no taste in clothes. 1372 01:27:57,277 --> 01:27:59,112 Oh, yeah. Knew that. 1373 01:27:59,195 --> 01:28:01,114 Same with my mom. 1374 01:28:01,656 --> 01:28:04,325 I do find myself dressing like her sometimes now. 1375 01:28:04,409 --> 01:28:06,369 I didn't wanna say anything. 1376 01:28:21,426 --> 01:28:23,011 Okay. 1377 01:28:35,065 --> 01:28:38,109 -Hello. -Hello! 1378 01:28:38,151 --> 01:28:41,279 Well, I am calling with good news 1379 01:28:41,363 --> 01:28:45,784 that he passed away last week. 1380 01:28:45,825 --> 01:28:48,828 And then it was, like, a, a frantic rush 1381 01:28:48,912 --> 01:28:51,206 to just get his body donated to science 1382 01:28:51,289 --> 01:28:53,541 so nobody had to deal with it. 1383 01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:55,960 -Wow. -Yeah. 1384 01:28:56,044 --> 01:28:57,128 No funeral, no nothin'. 1385 01:28:57,212 --> 01:28:59,881 It's just-- People just want to move on. 1386 01:28:59,964 --> 01:29:01,508 -Interesting. -Yeah. 1387 01:29:01,591 --> 01:29:04,344 Well, how are you feelin'? 1388 01:29:04,427 --> 01:29:06,304 -About this? -Mm-hmm. 1389 01:29:07,097 --> 01:29:10,642 Ya know, there's the apology that will never come. 1390 01:29:11,267 --> 01:29:13,645 I don't think it would've come anyway. 1391 01:29:13,687 --> 01:29:17,482 I feel like he can't ever hurt anyone else ever again. 1392 01:29:17,524 --> 01:29:18,858 Mm-hmm. 1393 01:29:18,942 --> 01:29:20,360 Um... 1394 01:29:23,530 --> 01:29:27,158 I mean, I'm happy... I'm happy. 1395 01:29:28,076 --> 01:29:30,412 Are you okay? I mean, I know he's your grandfather. 1396 01:29:30,495 --> 01:29:32,414 I'm really sorry. 1397 01:29:32,539 --> 01:29:38,378 Um, yeah. No, I-I'm o-- I'm obviously okay with it. 1398 01:29:38,461 --> 01:29:41,047 But I've been having, like, back-and-forth feelings 1399 01:29:41,131 --> 01:29:42,716 of just, like, a lot of anger 1400 01:29:42,799 --> 01:29:45,760 because I think there's still accountability to be had 1401 01:29:45,844 --> 01:29:48,513 and continuing to, to just talk about it. 1402 01:29:48,596 --> 01:29:51,433 And I feel very, like, firm in what I'm doing 1403 01:29:51,516 --> 01:29:54,894 and that I should be talking about this, so. 1404 01:29:55,687 --> 01:29:59,816 You know, it, it feels like a lot of responsibility, 1405 01:29:59,858 --> 01:30:02,902 you know, like, trudgin' up people's stuff, 1406 01:30:02,986 --> 01:30:06,698 but I also feel like by not talking about it 1407 01:30:06,781 --> 01:30:08,700 is giving him what he wants... 1408 01:30:08,783 --> 01:30:10,660 - Mm-hmm. - ...you know? 1409 01:30:12,871 --> 01:30:16,458 And I feel like, if anything, I want that silence to stop 1410 01:30:16,541 --> 01:30:18,376 in my family here. 1411 01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:28,428 You can go straight, baby, it's a lot quicker. 1412 01:30:28,511 --> 01:30:30,472 - Yeah? - Mm-hmm. 1413 01:30:33,224 --> 01:30:34,893 Are you nervous at all or no? 1414 01:30:34,976 --> 01:30:36,061 No. 1415 01:30:37,103 --> 01:30:38,688 Why would I be? 1416 01:30:39,230 --> 01:30:43,193 I mean, I think that there are some things that Ange... 1417 01:30:43,943 --> 01:30:48,948 is holding in around this that you guys could, 1418 01:30:49,032 --> 01:30:50,784 could talk about. 1419 01:30:52,660 --> 01:30:55,622 I don't want... to be like Grandma 1420 01:30:55,705 --> 01:30:58,833 and die with any secrets or regrets. 1421 01:30:58,917 --> 01:31:05,173 Yeah. Yeah, it's just, for you guys to heal, 1422 01:31:05,256 --> 01:31:09,719 I think you're really gonna have to listen to her. 1423 01:31:15,767 --> 01:31:18,311 Alright, here we go. 1424 01:31:18,395 --> 01:31:21,356 - Hi, puppers! Alright. - Hi, Roscoe! 1425 01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:23,566 Hi, Roo. Hi, hon. 1426 01:31:28,154 --> 01:31:29,698 That should be okay. 1427 01:31:29,781 --> 01:31:31,199 Manny, here's your coffee. 1428 01:31:31,241 --> 01:31:33,243 Well, there is one, and here's one. 1429 01:31:33,284 --> 01:31:35,036 - They're both the same. - Amanda, do you need sugar? 1430 01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,081 - And there's milk. - Um, no, I'm okay. 1431 01:31:43,878 --> 01:31:45,922 I get stressed going through this footage 1432 01:31:45,964 --> 01:31:47,966 because it's, like, there's so much of it, 1433 01:31:48,008 --> 01:31:49,300 and, like, I-- 1434 01:31:54,597 --> 01:31:57,434 As far as younger girls, 1435 01:31:57,475 --> 01:31:59,310 what about the girls in the family? 1436 01:31:59,394 --> 01:32:00,979 Oh, God, it's just nauseating. 1437 01:32:01,021 --> 01:32:03,815 Even just hear-- starting to hear it. 1438 01:32:03,857 --> 01:32:05,483 And then, Ange, 1439 01:32:05,525 --> 01:32:06,985 anything with Ange? 1440 01:32:07,068 --> 01:32:09,112 The only thing I can remember-- 1441 01:32:09,154 --> 01:32:10,113 Nothin' that I remember-- 1442 01:32:10,155 --> 01:32:12,032 I was only-- One time I was with Angie 1443 01:32:12,115 --> 01:32:14,409 that I recall. 1444 01:32:14,492 --> 01:32:17,412 Um... she was gonna-- 1445 01:32:17,495 --> 01:32:22,000 Uh, her mom was comin' over and she was leavin' Angie, 1446 01:32:22,083 --> 01:32:27,255 and, uh... she wanted to go to the bathroom. 1447 01:32:27,339 --> 01:32:30,258 So, I went in with her, 1448 01:32:30,342 --> 01:32:35,180 and I sat down on the potty without my clothes on. 1449 01:32:35,263 --> 01:32:39,768 And she took her panties off, and she sat on my lap, 1450 01:32:39,851 --> 01:32:42,103 and I rubbed her a little bit. 1451 01:32:43,521 --> 01:32:45,273 And that was the-- that was it. 1452 01:32:45,357 --> 01:32:49,110 But, lo and behold, at that particular moment, 1453 01:32:49,194 --> 01:32:50,945 her mom came home. 1454 01:32:51,029 --> 01:32:54,616 And that's when-- And she went out then t-to her mom. 1455 01:32:54,699 --> 01:32:58,787 That was the only thing that ever took place that I am aware of. 1456 01:32:58,870 --> 01:33:00,538 Unless I was dreaming, but that's the only thing-- 1457 01:33:00,622 --> 01:33:04,709 See that is the only time I remember, ever. 1458 01:33:05,085 --> 01:33:07,545 Nothing ever happened with you. 1459 01:33:07,587 --> 01:33:10,799 Well... I feel that, and this isn't something 1460 01:33:10,882 --> 01:33:13,385 I've ever wanted to say, 1461 01:33:13,426 --> 01:33:14,844 but-- 1462 01:33:15,470 --> 01:33:20,642 Okay, so, half of this issue 1463 01:33:20,725 --> 01:33:24,354 is because I was placed in it. 1464 01:33:24,396 --> 01:33:26,856 - Okay? - Let me get the tissues. 1465 01:33:31,194 --> 01:33:34,030 And the thing is, is I'm healed of this part of it, 1466 01:33:34,114 --> 01:33:36,991 but half of this issue 1467 01:33:37,075 --> 01:33:41,913 is not knowing why I was willingly put into something 1468 01:33:41,955 --> 01:33:44,874 - that you knew somebody did this. Mm-hmm. 1469 01:33:44,916 --> 01:33:48,586 So, those are my only current issues with it. 1470 01:33:48,628 --> 01:33:51,798 It's not that 1471 01:33:51,881 --> 01:33:54,009 any of this happened, I mean, yeah, that's not good. 1472 01:33:54,092 --> 01:33:57,012 But... I feel like I'm past that. 1473 01:33:57,095 --> 01:34:00,015 I know all that's wrong, I've been healed of it-- 1474 01:34:00,098 --> 01:34:01,766 Oh, thank you. You found tissue-- 1475 01:34:01,808 --> 01:34:03,935 I don't know where the tissues are. 1476 01:34:04,019 --> 01:34:06,354 Excuse me. 1477 01:34:08,273 --> 01:34:12,777 But I feel that a lot of our relationship 1478 01:34:12,819 --> 01:34:16,114 is based off of just a mistrust there 1479 01:34:16,197 --> 01:34:21,453 because of not feelin' like I understand 1480 01:34:21,494 --> 01:34:24,080 why I would've been put in that, 1481 01:34:24,122 --> 01:34:29,127 and never had an avenue to talk about it. 1482 01:34:29,210 --> 01:34:35,175 So, to hear you, like, just talk about it so casually sometimes, 1483 01:34:35,258 --> 01:34:39,095 I had, like, a hair issue or somethin'. 1484 01:34:39,137 --> 01:34:42,515 That was my way of internalizing that, 1485 01:34:42,599 --> 01:34:46,019 and just... taking it out on myself 1486 01:34:46,102 --> 01:34:49,898 because there was nobody that was w-willing to listen, 1487 01:34:49,981 --> 01:34:53,151 or cared to listen, or bring it up. 1488 01:34:54,235 --> 01:34:58,198 And I had no one to talk to. 1489 01:35:02,410 --> 01:35:03,787 Alright, from my end, 1490 01:35:03,828 --> 01:35:06,998 you know, and I'm sorry that anything happened, 1491 01:35:07,082 --> 01:35:10,126 whether... I knew it or not... 1492 01:35:10,168 --> 01:35:13,838 - Mm-hmm. - ...because I honestly remember the one time. 1493 01:35:14,255 --> 01:35:16,758 All that I was going through with the divorce, 1494 01:35:16,841 --> 01:35:18,510 I had nowhere else to go. 1495 01:35:18,593 --> 01:35:21,805 I didn't have a job. I had to find a job. 1496 01:35:21,846 --> 01:35:24,891 And that's when Grandma said, "Well, you can stay here." 1497 01:35:24,974 --> 01:35:27,852 And I remember talking to her and saying, 1498 01:35:27,936 --> 01:35:30,855 "You promise me you will take care of Ange?" 1499 01:35:31,022 --> 01:35:34,609 I knew that Grandma loved you, 1500 01:35:34,693 --> 01:35:37,570 and that she would, hopefully, protect you. 1501 01:35:37,654 --> 01:35:42,075 I didn't know all that was going on. 1502 01:35:42,158 --> 01:35:47,288 To me, it's, it's a whole, like, circle around 1503 01:35:47,372 --> 01:35:49,207 because it's, "Well, I had to go through this. 1504 01:35:49,249 --> 01:35:51,042 I had this. I had this bad stuff." 1505 01:35:51,084 --> 01:35:53,128 You know, is what I always hear from you. 1506 01:35:53,211 --> 01:35:54,421 But it's-- 1507 01:35:54,879 --> 01:35:57,549 No matter what my stuff I went through, 1508 01:35:57,590 --> 01:35:59,551 it's never as big as what 1509 01:35:59,634 --> 01:36:02,053 you've had to go through as a mom. 1510 01:36:02,095 --> 01:36:06,016 I haven't ever had, like, a mom that has wanted to care. 1511 01:36:06,057 --> 01:36:08,393 It's more about what you went through. 1512 01:36:12,230 --> 01:36:15,483 I don't really have an answer. I don't. 1513 01:36:15,567 --> 01:36:19,738 I believed that after that one time that I confronted him 1514 01:36:19,779 --> 01:36:21,781 that he would've never done it again. 1515 01:36:22,073 --> 01:36:24,909 And that was truly my belief. 1516 01:36:45,180 --> 01:36:49,851 So, this morning, we were supposed to go over to my mom's 1517 01:36:49,934 --> 01:36:52,604 to just do some basic interview questions, 1518 01:36:52,645 --> 01:36:54,606 and-- 1519 01:36:56,107 --> 01:37:00,445 I mean, I could tell that there was some tension yesterday, 1520 01:37:00,528 --> 01:37:05,825 and she just sent me a message canceling the interview, 1521 01:37:05,909 --> 01:37:10,955 which is a... an understatement. 1522 01:37:10,997 --> 01:37:13,458 "With the false accusations and how you feel about me, 1523 01:37:13,541 --> 01:37:16,252 "and what you think I feel about Ange is not true. 1524 01:37:16,294 --> 01:37:18,380 "You both keep expecting apologies out of me 1525 01:37:18,463 --> 01:37:21,299 "for things that you think I have been wrong in. 1526 01:37:21,341 --> 01:37:25,011 "I will defend myself at all costs when I know it is not true. 1527 01:37:25,095 --> 01:37:28,890 God knows what I've put up with in my life. No more." 1528 01:37:35,772 --> 01:37:37,774 Hi, Mom, got your message. 1529 01:37:37,816 --> 01:37:39,693 Happy to talk through this with you, 1530 01:37:39,776 --> 01:37:44,197 uh, so if you could call me back when you can, I'd appreciate it. 1531 01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:45,865 Thanks. 1532 01:37:47,325 --> 01:37:50,286 I definitely didn't see this coming, 1533 01:37:50,328 --> 01:37:56,501 but I would like to not have my relationship with my mom end. 1534 01:38:15,687 --> 01:38:19,816 I-I'm just sick and tired of conflict, 1535 01:38:19,858 --> 01:38:24,487 sick and tired of never meeting up to the expectations. 1536 01:38:24,529 --> 01:38:29,367 I have bent over backwards for everyone in this family. 1537 01:38:30,535 --> 01:38:31,911 No matter how much pain, 1538 01:38:31,995 --> 01:38:34,914 no matter how much discomfort it's caused me. 1539 01:38:34,998 --> 01:38:39,753 So, I'm sorry... but I can't do it anymore. 1540 01:38:40,670 --> 01:38:44,341 I'm, I'm very sorry that it's come to that. 1541 01:38:44,382 --> 01:38:48,386 I feel like I've been pushing more and more 1542 01:38:49,846 --> 01:38:54,601 because I thought that it was... 1543 01:38:55,477 --> 01:38:59,522 helping to paint a better picture for you to know what to do. 1544 01:38:59,564 --> 01:39:02,817 If you know a bit more about how Angie's feeling, 1545 01:39:02,901 --> 01:39:05,111 then you might know how to respond. 1546 01:39:05,528 --> 01:39:09,616 - I've-- - Do you understand that I do know what she feels? 1547 01:39:09,699 --> 01:39:13,036 -Because been there, done it. -Uh, it's-- 1548 01:39:20,377 --> 01:39:24,214 I feel... like you're all adults. 1549 01:39:24,255 --> 01:39:26,257 I've ruined enough of your life. 1550 01:39:26,341 --> 01:39:30,637 I just slip out slowly, everybody's happy. 1551 01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:32,764 - Everybody can do what they want... - That's not true. 1552 01:39:32,847 --> 01:39:35,934 - ...crazy mom's not there. - That's how I feel. 1553 01:39:35,975 --> 01:39:38,269 That's not how I feel at all, 1554 01:39:38,311 --> 01:39:42,774 and it's not how Ange feels in any way. 1555 01:39:42,857 --> 01:39:45,276 We love you. You're our mom. 1556 01:39:48,446 --> 01:39:51,282 I love you guys, but... 1557 01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:54,786 when... I keep getting... 1558 01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:59,374 the accusatory things where... 1559 01:39:59,874 --> 01:40:03,837 it doesn't matter what I say, it doesn't matter what I do. 1560 01:40:04,337 --> 01:40:07,007 It makes me feel like the very best thing 1561 01:40:07,090 --> 01:40:09,050 is just packin' everything up, 1562 01:40:09,134 --> 01:40:12,512 and just never talkin' to anybody again 1563 01:40:12,595 --> 01:40:16,766 because I've messed up everybody's lives so much. 1564 01:40:35,285 --> 01:40:37,954 If I am sharing my perspective of things, 1565 01:40:37,996 --> 01:40:39,456 I don't want you to feel like that's an attack 1566 01:40:39,497 --> 01:40:42,000 because I think the one thing that we've learned here 1567 01:40:42,042 --> 01:40:43,668 is that... 1568 01:40:44,878 --> 01:40:47,672 truth has multiple perspectives. 1569 01:40:47,714 --> 01:40:51,009 But I also want to stay open to what each other are saying... 1570 01:40:51,092 --> 01:40:53,345 -Mm-hmm. -...to possibly learn something new. 1571 01:40:53,386 --> 01:40:56,598 I'm, like, not here to attack, or judge, or anything. 1572 01:40:57,390 --> 01:41:00,518 I'm not going to spend my time and effort 1573 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:03,772 -when I know what is true. -Mm-hmm. 1574 01:41:03,855 --> 01:41:08,193 -And I'm being blamed for something that's not true. -Can we talk about that, though? 1575 01:41:08,276 --> 01:41:10,278 'Cause I just wanna understand what you're talking about. 1576 01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,449 What do you feel has-- that has been said about you is untrue? 1577 01:41:14,532 --> 01:41:19,746 There are things that have been said about me that 1578 01:41:19,829 --> 01:41:22,457 um, that did not happen. 1579 01:41:22,540 --> 01:41:24,501 Can you tell me specifically, though? 1580 01:41:24,542 --> 01:41:28,880 It's about many things that-- Okay, say somebody, uh, says-- 1581 01:41:28,922 --> 01:41:33,843 Is-- But is-- Are-- I think the most relevant example 1582 01:41:33,885 --> 01:41:37,180 is, like, that Ange was abused. 1583 01:41:38,765 --> 01:41:41,184 Do you feel any responsibility 1584 01:41:41,643 --> 01:41:46,064 for, not just that incident, but all of the incidences 1585 01:41:46,147 --> 01:41:48,692 that Ange was abused living with him? 1586 01:41:48,733 --> 01:41:52,195 Do you feel any responsibility for h-- that having happened? 1587 01:41:52,237 --> 01:41:54,614 Of course, I feel responsible because she's my kid 1588 01:41:54,698 --> 01:41:57,617 and I've always wanted to protect her. 1589 01:41:57,701 --> 01:42:00,286 Yes, but then, again, 1590 01:42:01,037 --> 01:42:03,581 it was like I was guaranteed 1591 01:42:03,665 --> 01:42:07,419 that Grandma was gonna not let her out of her sight. 1592 01:42:07,502 --> 01:42:11,548 And so, I trusted her. I trusted her word. 1593 01:42:11,589 --> 01:42:14,426 But I-- in that conversation, did both of you acknowledge 1594 01:42:14,467 --> 01:42:17,345 that you know that Grandpa does this? 1595 01:42:17,429 --> 01:42:20,098 No, she did not ever acknowledge it. 1596 01:42:20,140 --> 01:42:21,933 -Mm-hmm. -And I'm angry at myself 1597 01:42:22,017 --> 01:42:24,728 that I didn't... 1598 01:42:24,769 --> 01:42:27,647 like, f-- kinda force her to talk about it. 1599 01:42:28,273 --> 01:42:31,234 All along, I've known that she's had to have known. 1600 01:42:31,276 --> 01:42:33,862 Um, how could you have all these court hearings 1601 01:42:33,945 --> 01:42:36,156 and all the things and not know? 1602 01:42:36,448 --> 01:42:41,119 She knew, and I know that, you know, at a certain point, 1603 01:42:41,161 --> 01:42:44,956 she realized, like, she is... implicated. 1604 01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:46,166 She chose a side. 1605 01:42:46,249 --> 01:42:49,502 She chose to protect him instead of her kids. 1606 01:42:49,586 --> 01:42:51,921 But we all need to take responsibility for our role 1607 01:42:51,963 --> 01:42:54,215 in what Grandpa was able to do. 1608 01:42:55,091 --> 01:42:59,387 We have been driven to be more angry with each other and not Grandpa 1609 01:42:59,471 --> 01:43:01,514 when Grandpa is the reason... 1610 01:43:01,598 --> 01:43:04,642 -Mm-hmm. -...for all of this tension, all of the division. 1611 01:43:04,726 --> 01:43:07,145 I just want people to be angry at him. 1612 01:43:07,187 --> 01:43:09,606 That's an unforgiveness on your part. 1613 01:43:09,856 --> 01:43:13,651 There's a reconciling day for every person 1614 01:43:13,693 --> 01:43:17,947 for what they've done and unforgiveness is a huge one. 1615 01:43:17,989 --> 01:43:20,075 If we don't forgive somebody, 1616 01:43:20,158 --> 01:43:22,035 uh, we're held accountable for that, too. 1617 01:43:22,118 --> 01:43:24,537 -So, I just-- -But how can you forgive 1618 01:43:24,621 --> 01:43:26,164 when nothing was done about it, 1619 01:43:26,247 --> 01:43:28,500 and he just kind of died... 1620 01:43:28,583 --> 01:43:30,794 and just managed to get away with it. 1621 01:43:30,835 --> 01:43:33,630 If you stay angry and can't forgive somebody, 1622 01:43:33,672 --> 01:43:35,674 you're drinkin' the poison yourself. 1623 01:43:35,715 --> 01:43:37,634 But the act of being angry is saying, 1624 01:43:37,676 --> 01:43:39,386 "You know what? I'm not gonna feel that way. 1625 01:43:39,469 --> 01:43:41,763 "Fuck that. This isn't my fault, this is your fault. 1626 01:43:41,846 --> 01:43:44,182 And you need to be held accountable for this." 1627 01:43:44,265 --> 01:43:46,101 You've gotta let go. 1628 01:43:46,351 --> 01:43:48,311 And that's where I'm at. 1629 01:43:49,020 --> 01:43:51,231 This last leg of my life, 1630 01:43:51,314 --> 01:43:56,194 uh, I-I just want to agree to disagree with people, 1631 01:43:56,277 --> 01:43:58,113 and just love 'em where they're at 1632 01:43:58,154 --> 01:44:02,409 because you cannot change where they're at. 1633 01:44:02,492 --> 01:44:05,161 I do understand wanting to move forward, 1634 01:44:05,203 --> 01:44:10,083 but healing, to me, is you have to talk about the hard stuff 1635 01:44:10,166 --> 01:44:12,585 if you want to move past it. 1636 01:44:36,067 --> 01:44:39,738 I think the bizarre thing that's happening right now 1637 01:44:39,821 --> 01:44:45,243 is my mom is leaving for the first time in her life. 1638 01:44:45,285 --> 01:44:47,162 She has bought an RV, 1639 01:44:47,245 --> 01:44:50,874 which is something that runs in the family, 1640 01:44:50,915 --> 01:44:55,754 and is planning on leaving Pennsylvania for the first time, 1641 01:44:55,837 --> 01:44:59,090 and, yeah, she's just not gonna be here. 1642 01:45:06,639 --> 01:45:10,769 Now that she's leaving, it's just kind of like, "We tried." 1643 01:45:10,852 --> 01:45:14,314 And I just have to do what's best for myself. 1644 01:45:18,401 --> 01:45:20,153 "Dear Mom, 1645 01:45:20,236 --> 01:45:21,488 "we've gone months without talking, 1646 01:45:21,571 --> 01:45:22,697 "and have had countless fights. 1647 01:45:22,781 --> 01:45:23,948 "Moments where I wasn't sure 1648 01:45:23,990 --> 01:45:25,241 "we'd ever speak again. 1649 01:45:25,283 --> 01:45:26,618 "Banging our heads against the wall 1650 01:45:26,659 --> 01:45:29,287 "to try and feel understood by each other. 1651 01:45:29,371 --> 01:45:32,415 "Even though there are many ways we will never see eye-to-eye, 1652 01:45:32,457 --> 01:45:34,167 "I have such immense respect for you 1653 01:45:34,250 --> 01:45:37,796 for where you've gotten in life, despite all the odds." 1654 01:45:42,175 --> 01:45:44,302 I feel like she can't give to us... 1655 01:45:44,344 --> 01:45:47,222 - Mm-hmm. - ...what she herself doesn't know to do for herself. 1656 01:45:47,305 --> 01:45:51,142 She's doing what she has always done. 1657 01:45:51,393 --> 01:45:53,311 We just have to keep moving forward. 1658 01:45:53,395 --> 01:45:57,148 As much of a shitstorm as all this is, you know. 1659 01:45:57,190 --> 01:46:00,985 Mom's doin' better than Grandma, you're doin' better than Mom, 1660 01:46:01,069 --> 01:46:03,780 -and your kids are gonna do better than you. -Right. 1661 01:46:04,531 --> 01:46:09,494 It makes me very excited and very proud that... 1662 01:46:10,245 --> 01:46:12,330 I chose a different way, 1663 01:46:12,956 --> 01:46:15,583 that my girls won't have to walk through. 1664 01:46:17,002 --> 01:46:19,921 You know, and hopefully, it propels them to be 1665 01:46:20,005 --> 01:46:22,298 better versions of themselves, earlier, 1666 01:46:22,340 --> 01:46:26,136 where I had to walk through a lot of crap to become... 1667 01:46:26,177 --> 01:46:27,804 the best me. 1668 01:46:40,525 --> 01:46:42,652 "I don't regret holding you accountable 1669 01:46:42,694 --> 01:46:44,446 "for letting Ange down. 1670 01:46:44,487 --> 01:46:46,740 "But I also understand that living in survival mode 1671 01:46:46,823 --> 01:46:49,534 "when you don't even know how to protect yourself 1672 01:46:49,576 --> 01:46:51,411 "is a reality that's hard to explain, 1673 01:46:51,494 --> 01:46:53,121 "but that so many can relate to. 1674 01:46:53,204 --> 01:46:56,166 "Many people do not survive the abuse you have, 1675 01:46:56,207 --> 01:46:59,085 "let alone survive facing it. 1676 01:47:00,962 --> 01:47:04,090 "I'm so sorry that you were abused by your dad, 1677 01:47:04,174 --> 01:47:06,426 "and that your mom looked on. 1678 01:47:07,719 --> 01:47:09,304 "It must've been very lonely, 1679 01:47:09,387 --> 01:47:10,513 "and while it wasn't your fault, 1680 01:47:10,555 --> 01:47:11,931 "it breaks my heart 1681 01:47:12,015 --> 01:47:13,933 "to imagine the shame that you felt. 1682 01:47:14,017 --> 01:47:16,353 "And now that is what makes me angry. 1683 01:47:21,107 --> 01:47:22,734 "You deserved better. 1684 01:47:22,817 --> 01:47:25,945 "You deserved to be heard and to be seen 1685 01:47:26,029 --> 01:47:29,824 "and to feel safe and protected by your parents. 1686 01:47:31,076 --> 01:47:33,745 "It would take us longer than we'll ever be alive 1687 01:47:33,787 --> 01:47:35,663 "to ever fully understand the ways 1688 01:47:35,747 --> 01:47:37,999 "we've each been shaped by Grandpa's abuse. 1689 01:47:38,083 --> 01:47:40,460 "But it's my hope, that with space, time, 1690 01:47:40,543 --> 01:47:44,214 "and individual commitment to unpacking who this has made each of us, 1691 01:47:44,255 --> 01:47:48,426 "that the gap between us will all be able to slowly close. 1692 01:47:48,843 --> 01:47:50,762 "I am honored to have you as my mom, 1693 01:47:50,804 --> 01:47:53,306 "and to have taken this journey with you 1694 01:47:53,390 --> 01:47:55,392 "as long as we could together. 1695 01:47:55,433 --> 01:47:57,602 "And I hope that in this next chapter, 1696 01:47:57,644 --> 01:48:00,939 you're able to find the peace you deserve." 1697 01:48:50,071 --> 01:48:52,407 I felt like a big breath of fresh air 1698 01:48:52,490 --> 01:48:54,576 when I got off the phone with her last night. 1699 01:48:54,659 --> 01:48:56,995 I always was thinkin', "I'm just gonna have to be okay 1700 01:48:57,037 --> 01:49:01,750 with her not acknowledging, you know, my pain." 1701 01:49:01,833 --> 01:49:05,754 So, um, I didn't know that she ever would. 1702 01:49:05,837 --> 01:49:09,007 So, that was really good that, ya know, that, that piece 1703 01:49:09,090 --> 01:49:12,844 feels, like, kinda completed this for me. 1704 01:49:13,094 --> 01:49:16,556 - Ugh! - So that's really good. 1705 01:49:17,932 --> 01:49:21,269 I love it! 1706 01:49:29,819 --> 01:49:34,032 Going back to Harrisburg was, like, the beginning of my-- 1707 01:49:34,115 --> 01:49:36,993 I don't know if you wanna call it a journey or processing, 1708 01:49:37,035 --> 01:49:40,830 but, like, it took everything in me that I had 1709 01:49:40,872 --> 01:49:43,166 to go back to the Herd Clinic. 1710 01:49:43,208 --> 01:49:45,502 Sorry, my daughter's trying to reach me. 1711 01:49:45,543 --> 01:49:48,254 She's nine-and-a-half months pregnant. 1712 01:49:48,338 --> 01:49:50,090 Do you, do you mind if I just-- 1713 01:49:50,173 --> 01:49:52,550 I just wanna make sure that we're good 1714 01:49:52,592 --> 01:49:54,594 -because if she's like, "I'm in labor." -Yes. 1715 01:49:54,678 --> 01:49:56,805 Okay. Go have a grandbaby.